Forgive my ignorance please, I’m not an american. I see these posts often on reddit and lemmy, but shouldn’t these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don’t vote frequent? Is there any stat at all to show whether such posts work?
Yes there is. It’s just more self gratifying and less purposeful though.
People still vote based on “in-group” logic and moral opinions whether comments add to discussions or not. People still act superior on here for feeling they have support when getting upvotes.
I think it’s actually mostly a product of the overton window kind of being split, but, not really split in the ways that you might think. It’s not so much that each party is getting more extreme in what their actual beliefs are, it’s just that people are getting more extreme in their rhetoric, more extreme in their isolation. This, if anything, encourages people they disagree with not to vote. You need only look beneath these kinds of posts to see the sheer amount of people that chirp up, disagree at any time, and then totally fail to be convinced.
No, much like underpantsweevil said, this is purely something that’s for the in-group, to make them feel good, to make them feel like they’re doing something productive, and more than any of that, it’s a way for them to work out ideological insecurities and reinforce pre-existing beliefs. Which further feeds into that rhetorical isolation. Keep that running for 30 years online (maybe more like 10 if you’re just considering web 2.0), and you shake out to about where we are now. Continue this for another 10 or 20 years and you’re probably directly headed for some absolutely heinous shit as the gulf gets wider and wider.
Pay no attention to them, they want people to vote for someone who supports genocide. They know they’re losing so they’re doing everything and anything they can right now, just tune them out.
So your solution is to let Trump win and make everyone but the rich pay for that genocide, probably destroy us democracy, while all this will change nothing for Palestine ?
Dude there are 2 options in the us both support genocide just one of them wants to deport every immigrant and put in a ton of awful policies And genuinely is a threat to democracy pick the better option and vote
You just admitted that you don’t have democracy two seconds ago. You can’t say “I have no choice but to let my rulers commit genocide in my name” and two seconds later say “We have a democracy worth defending”
The democrats have also drifted rightward on deportation in this election, saying that they’ll be harder on the border than trump was in 2016, which, again, they already had been doing. The cost benefit here is an argument over whether or not one or the other will be like, 5% worse, and some of us, like you’ve just been sent evidence for in the previous comment, aren’t even convinced that the democrats will be any better.
Perhaps there is a third approach here, yes? Perhaps there is something in the specifics of this lack of actual, tangible democracy that exists for people, that means your specific vote is mostly meaningless anyways, which means it’s freed up to be thrown at some third party candidate, yes? Do you live in a swing state? Do you live in a gerrymandered swing district in one of said swing states? Do you live in a state where your electoral college candidate has to obey your vote? If the answer to any of those was no, then congrats, you basically have free reign to vote for whoever actually aligns closest to your beliefs, because your vote doesn’t actually matter.
Bullshit. Your vote matters. It might not impact you local election but the more obviously backward the electoral college looks the more likely someone will throw it in the trash like they should have decades ago.
Do you have any actual argument other than just saying “Bullshit. your vote matters.” though? Anything more to back that up, with a basis in how the system actually functions? Do you think the democrats will legitimately provide a challenge to FPTP voting? To the electoral college? Do you think the republicans will? How would that get overturned, what would that actually look like?
Do you think the democrats will legitimately provide a challenge to FPTP voting? To the electoral college?
In time, with enough constituents demanding it, yes. The electoral college specifically hurts their chances.
Do you think the republicans will?
They would have no power without the electoral college. They are close to losing even with a disproportionate amount of influence which is why they are willing to sabotage the country to get back into power.
How would that get overturned, what would that actually look like?
The best way to challenge this captured system is to recapture it via one of the two parties. Make sure your representatives know what you want, convince others who agree with you to do the same, and convince the rest that disagree with you that you are in the right. Then you get critical mass and make it happen. The same way every cultural change happens.
Alternatively or simultaneously, you could have efforts pushing third parties locally. It is easy for an established party to destroy one political opponent on the national level. Just throw money at the problem. 1,000 local elections though? Much harder to manage an attack on a thousand fronts.
A LOT of the time spent being an adult is about making choices where only bad ones are available. You don’t have to like one or the other but you have to be grown enough to recognize the difference between an orange hippo flinging shit around and someone who you can trust won’t be taking an actual shit at the table during a meeting with heads of state
You start with mentioning choices where only bad ones are available, and then go on do reduce this one to two choices. Thats where the disconnect is. There are many choices, there were literally half a dozen on my ballot.
Politics won’t change until we vote for it, and splitting between the two main parties and casting your vote against the one you hate most isnt working, clearly.
People need to be aware that just because people shout that there are only two choices does not make it true. In fact, I’d argue you should always be wary of what an angry internet mob is shouting on every single post related to politics.
Love seeing bullshit like this downvoted. It goes to show how common sense and an adherence to reality can effectively stand up against propagandist bullshit.
Forgive my ignorance please, I’m not an american. I see these posts often on reddit and lemmy, but shouldn’t these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don’t vote frequent? Is there any stat at all to show whether such posts work?
No. This is all just preaching to the choir for karma.
There is no karma on Lemmy
Yes there is. It’s just more self gratifying and less purposeful though.
People still vote based on “in-group” logic and moral opinions whether comments add to discussions or not. People still act superior on here for feeling they have support when getting upvotes.
I think it’s actually mostly a product of the overton window kind of being split, but, not really split in the ways that you might think. It’s not so much that each party is getting more extreme in what their actual beliefs are, it’s just that people are getting more extreme in their rhetoric, more extreme in their isolation. This, if anything, encourages people they disagree with not to vote. You need only look beneath these kinds of posts to see the sheer amount of people that chirp up, disagree at any time, and then totally fail to be convinced.
No, much like underpantsweevil said, this is purely something that’s for the in-group, to make them feel good, to make them feel like they’re doing something productive, and more than any of that, it’s a way for them to work out ideological insecurities and reinforce pre-existing beliefs. Which further feeds into that rhetorical isolation. Keep that running for 30 years online (maybe more like 10 if you’re just considering web 2.0), and you shake out to about where we are now. Continue this for another 10 or 20 years and you’re probably directly headed for some absolutely heinous shit as the gulf gets wider and wider.
Pay no attention to them, they want people to vote for someone who supports genocide. They know they’re losing so they’re doing everything and anything they can right now, just tune them out.
So your solution is to let Trump win and make everyone but the rich pay for that genocide, probably destroy us democracy, while all this will change nothing for Palestine ?
Dude there are 2 options in the us both support genocide just one of them wants to deport every immigrant and put in a ton of awful policies And genuinely is a threat to democracy pick the better option and vote
There’s no point arguing with MAGA about who to vote for. Just point, laugh, and move on. It’s the 11th hour. They’re not going to stop now.
True
They both deport the same amounts of immigrants: https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39 Obama deported more than Trump
You just admitted that you don’t have democracy two seconds ago. You can’t say “I have no choice but to let my rulers commit genocide in my name” and two seconds later say “We have a democracy worth defending”
Have you not heard their new plans for deportation its going to be wayyy worse than he was when he was in office.
At least there are 2 shitty options versus none
The democrats have also drifted rightward on deportation in this election, saying that they’ll be harder on the border than trump was in 2016, which, again, they already had been doing. The cost benefit here is an argument over whether or not one or the other will be like, 5% worse, and some of us, like you’ve just been sent evidence for in the previous comment, aren’t even convinced that the democrats will be any better.
Perhaps there is a third approach here, yes? Perhaps there is something in the specifics of this lack of actual, tangible democracy that exists for people, that means your specific vote is mostly meaningless anyways, which means it’s freed up to be thrown at some third party candidate, yes? Do you live in a swing state? Do you live in a gerrymandered swing district in one of said swing states? Do you live in a state where your electoral college candidate has to obey your vote? If the answer to any of those was no, then congrats, you basically have free reign to vote for whoever actually aligns closest to your beliefs, because your vote doesn’t actually matter.
Bullshit. Your vote matters. It might not impact you local election but the more obviously backward the electoral college looks the more likely someone will throw it in the trash like they should have decades ago.
Do you have any actual argument other than just saying “Bullshit. your vote matters.” though? Anything more to back that up, with a basis in how the system actually functions? Do you think the democrats will legitimately provide a challenge to FPTP voting? To the electoral college? Do you think the republicans will? How would that get overturned, what would that actually look like?
In time, with enough constituents demanding it, yes. The electoral college specifically hurts their chances.
They would have no power without the electoral college. They are close to losing even with a disproportionate amount of influence which is why they are willing to sabotage the country to get back into power.
The best way to challenge this captured system is to recapture it via one of the two parties. Make sure your representatives know what you want, convince others who agree with you to do the same, and convince the rest that disagree with you that you are in the right. Then you get critical mass and make it happen. The same way every cultural change happens.
Alternatively or simultaneously, you could have efforts pushing third parties locally. It is easy for an established party to destroy one political opponent on the national level. Just throw money at the problem. 1,000 local elections though? Much harder to manage an attack on a thousand fronts.
A LOT of the time spent being an adult is about making choices where only bad ones are available. You don’t have to like one or the other but you have to be grown enough to recognize the difference between an orange hippo flinging shit around and someone who you can trust won’t be taking an actual shit at the table during a meeting with heads of state
You start with mentioning choices where only bad ones are available, and then go on do reduce this one to two choices. Thats where the disconnect is. There are many choices, there were literally half a dozen on my ballot.
Politics won’t change until we vote for it, and splitting between the two main parties and casting your vote against the one you hate most isnt working, clearly.
People need to be aware that just because people shout that there are only two choices does not make it true. In fact, I’d argue you should always be wary of what an angry internet mob is shouting on every single post related to politics.
Love seeing bullshit like this downvoted. It goes to show how common sense and an adherence to reality can effectively stand up against propagandist bullshit.
Both support genocide, it’s not just the democrats.