In the last couple weeks, I’ve noticed a sudden and dramatic shift in tone with how Biden is talked about on Lemmy as well as other corners of the internet I lurk on(e.g. this comment section). Before, it seemed like the general opinion was “he’s nowhere close to my 1st choice, but the alternative is Trump.” And now I feel like people are a lot quicker to jump to his defense and treat him like one of the better presidents of our lifetime.
I’m gonna admit that I’m a lot less up to date and informed about politics than I should be, but where did this recent pivot on Biden come from?
Election date is getting closer, methinks. People are slowly transitioning from voicing their complaints to reminding everyone of their two options, or even to appreciating all that Biden has accomplished.
I haven’t seen things saying he’s good. I have seen it said, and said, that he’s better than expected. It’s just that the bar is too low. He might possibly be one of the better president, though not inspiring, just because there aren’t many good ones. FDR is good from what I know of him, though I’m sure there’s still plenty to complain about. Other than that, we haven’t really had any leftist president’s in the US. The fact that Biden has mostly been friendly towards unions is a nice change from standard US practice.
Basically, he’s not great. He’s what we’ve got. He’s also better than it would seem like he would be if you paid attention to his political past.
He’s not been perfect by any means, and is seriously bungling the Gaza situation to put it mildly, but he’s absolutely been the best and most successful president in my lifetime so far, especially when it comes to making progressive steps.
Note that that doesn’t mean he’s great, but yeah, the bar is just absurdly low
I would have liked to see Obama without being chained by the amount of Republicans voting against him that he had, but I wonder if it would have made any difference.
As a non-American who was in Finance before, during and after the 2008 Crash, lets just say that by the things he chose to do after the Crash, the way he chose to do them and even more importantly the people he chose to manage those things, even though he sings like a songbird, the quality of his actions definitelly didn’t match the beauty of his songs.
I haven’t seen things saying he’s good. I have seen it said, and said, that he’s better than expected. It’s just that the bar is too low.
He only needs to be marginally better than the alternative, so that’s all the DNC will ever give us. Because giving us much better than the GOP might disrupt the donor money train.
Given that neither Trump nor Biden are Prime Minister of Israel, I think it’s the most realistic option. Given that the rest of the world wants to jump in with embargoes and resolutions and even actions, it may also be more realistic to maintain any influence.
no the good options both involve bombing the kapo trash, then bombing the kapo trash, then bombing the kapo trash some more. you do not have influence over ‘Israel’, its a mad dog that needs to be put the fuck down.
I tend to point out to people that those complaining about Biden tend to be unable to accurately back up the vast majority of their complaints. They also go oddly silent when someone comes back with a reasoned argument.
I’d say it is reasonable to say Biden has been the most progressive president since Johnson signed the civil rights bill. It surprised the hell out of me.
Our votes literally brought Biden into the Presidency. ANY progress that has been made is specifically because our votes mattered. They have always mattered. The brutal truth is a combination of apathy, disenfranchisement, deconstructing the public school system, and a sprinkle of brainwashing has caused too many people to not vote. Apathy at the top for a reason.
Moreover, Biden has rolled over when our voices become loud enough on a handful of issues. He has also completed several of the promises he made and is in progress on several more.
Literally, all because we came together and voted him into the position. Is he perfect? Nope. He could be better. Yet I am inclined to give him at least a partial pass due to the division of the entire nation caused in large part due to Trump’s Republican Party. Say what you will, Biden has NOT had it easy.
has he rolled over? has he managed half his campaign promises? the ones people wanted? even just the ones that could be executive orders?
(no he fucking hasn’t)
I don’t give a shit how hard he’s got it. if he’s that tired, he should’ve stepped the fuckdownamd let someone competent, who could easily beat trump, have a shot.
the only reason anyone votes for biden is Donald trump. if either party ran someone competent, or ecen just someone who wasnt an octogenarian fascist (crypto or balls slapping against a swastika as he screams ‘work will make you freeeeee!’) they would wipe the god damn floor with either of these fucking clowns. they won’t though. and that’s why I’m not voting.
also, I’m in California. my vote literally did not matter, and, due to statistical fuckery, literally isn’t counted except in the ‘popular vote’ which does not matter.
and you still haven’t said anything good about him or his policies. you people are exactly like trump cultists; its really sad.
You realize an attack against the person during a discussion is right out of the GOP playbook? Anyway, I haven’t said anything directly in support of Biden because to be completely honest: That information is all over Lemmy. Even a 10 second Google search…
…will find enough to work off of. Politifact just being the first link, amongst several, all of them saying the same things. Those are just his campaign promises. I won’t go into how he is actually leading and the steps he is taking, often with limited support due to the GOP, in making any form of positive progress on issues as they occur.
No, you’ve decided you know better. When you do step up it’s to bitch and complain, poke and prod, exclaim some broad truth. In reality you’ve done no research. You will listen to no argument. Meanwhile, you will expect others to do the work and then either completely disassemble it meticulously until they give up, or completely ignore the work in favor of something barely relevant.
Face it, Biden is better than you expected. No amount of anger will change that. In fact, we should be celebrating his successes more strongly to let him know we approve of the positive changes when they happen.
He’s also better than it would seem like he would be if you paid attention to his political past.
This is what makes me think he’s just the voice for someone else. His history is far too shit for even the mild amount of good that has happened in this admin.
Typically how this goes is that a centrist liberal Democrat will get the nomination, and then push the left and progressives to support them because this centrist liberal can be transacted with. Once in office, they’ll stomp all over the left and progressives, do literally less than the bare minimum needed to support the idea that they are in fact trying to get support from progressives and leftists, and then demand more votes four years later so progressives and the left can all get taken for another ride by some rich asshole who has more in common with Elon Musk than they do with most Americans.
Clinton more or less promised this type of governance to the left, and only tried, all too tardily, to come around after it became clear that people might actually not show up for someone who openly hates them and literally does not share their politics, and that raw identity politics alone was not going to be enough to get her into government.
Biden, surprisingly, has out of nowhere done a variety of progressive things. He allowed himself to be pushed on student loans. Like actually though. He banned non-competes, which won’t fix capitalism, but if you’re a capitalist liberal who believes in transacting with the left and in properly managing markets through policy, then that was a 100% necessary move. And he did it, without even that much fanfare.
While he’ll never be pro-labor in the way I would want to see in order to be a supporter, the fact that he is actually willing to engage in transactional politics with progressives/the left really does count for something to me. He’s still a strikebreaker and I won’t give him credit for being a pro-labor candidate, but being willing to cut deals on things here and there does mean he has something to offer.
I’ve always been on the side of “better than he gets credit for” and “as good as anyone can do in an impossible situation of dysfunctional politics”. I do believe he wants to be at least a bit closer to that yellow line
That’s not the same as thinking he’s one of the better in my lifetime, and most of my reaction is give credit where it’s sure, but also face reality. For all we criticize republicans about hiding from reality (such as global warming), why are we hiding from realities like dysfunctional politics and the limits of what one person can do?
I’m a member of a political party (not in the US, thank the Gods) and was also in one in a different country I lived in and to me it looks a lot like the Democrat Party has started activelly campaigning, so party members are out and about in, amongst other places, social media, spreading the word about their tribe, maybe with some professional help.
This also explains the increase in articles posted in forums here like World and News consistently pushing a “vote Biden or get apocalypse” message, as well as the swarming nature of downvotes for even the most well thought comment that pick holes in that political propaganda strategy (such comments are swamped by downvotes, but the ones at the top or near of threads will over time slowly get more upvotes until they’re more than the downvotes).
It looks a lot like the kind of shit I saw in social media and newspaper forums in Britain during the Leave Referendum and that stuff later was discovered to have had massive manipulation from US-based interests via Cambridge Analytica and from Russia.
To clarify, you’re saying it’s folks from the popular instances trying to rebrand the conversation as “Biden is cool as fuck actually” as well as folks willing to just roll with that? Or am I misinterpreting?
(I gotta stop making comments on lemmy when I’m stoned and only have 2 brain cells)
TBH I misread as well, I was talking about the comparisons between Biden and Hitler. I’ve been seeing a lot more of “people” saying they’re not going to vote at all and encouraging others to do so, which will just result in a trump presidency.
Gotcha, so maybe the sudden positive feeling about Biden is more of a reaction to that mindset to try and sway folks back to voting? That’d certainly make sense to me.
Certainly could be. Biden should absolutely be criticized for his shortcomings, as any president should. But there’s no better option right now so it’s really about damage control more than anything
In the last couple weeks, I’ve noticed a sudden and dramatic shift in tone with how Biden is talked about on Lemmy as well as other corners of the internet I lurk on(e.g. this comment section). Before, it seemed like the general opinion was “he’s nowhere close to my 1st choice, but the alternative is Trump.” And now I feel like people are a lot quicker to jump to his defense and treat him like one of the better presidents of our lifetime.
I’m gonna admit that I’m a lot less up to date and informed about politics than I should be, but where did this recent pivot on Biden come from?
Election date is getting closer, methinks. People are slowly transitioning from voicing their complaints to reminding everyone of their two options, or even to appreciating all that Biden has accomplished.
Trollfarms got new orders
Yeah, they did. Like “do everything you can to dissuade voters from voting for the only viable alternative to Trump.”
I haven’t seen things saying he’s good. I have seen it said, and said, that he’s better than expected. It’s just that the bar is too low. He might possibly be one of the better president, though not inspiring, just because there aren’t many good ones. FDR is good from what I know of him, though I’m sure there’s still plenty to complain about. Other than that, we haven’t really had any leftist president’s in the US. The fact that Biden has mostly been friendly towards unions is a nice change from standard US practice.
Basically, he’s not great. He’s what we’ve got. He’s also better than it would seem like he would be if you paid attention to his political past.
He’s not been perfect by any means, and is seriously bungling the Gaza situation to put it mildly, but he’s absolutely been the best and most successful president in my lifetime so far, especially when it comes to making progressive steps.
Note that that doesn’t mean he’s great, but yeah, the bar is just absurdly low
As a non-American, I think Obama was a bit better, but the difference is definitely pretty marginal
I would have liked to see Obama without being chained by the amount of Republicans voting against him that he had, but I wonder if it would have made any difference.
Obama was more charismatic and better at messaging, but I think actually worse on policy.
As a non-American who was in Finance before, during and after the 2008 Crash, lets just say that by the things he chose to do after the Crash, the way he chose to do them and even more importantly the people he chose to manage those things, even though he sings like a songbird, the quality of his actions definitelly didn’t match the beauty of his songs.
Incredible orator.
Also dishonest as fuck.
He only needs to be marginally better than the alternative, so that’s all the DNC will ever give us. Because giving us much better than the GOP might disrupt the donor money train.
All fair points, it was just jarring to see the consensus shift from “both options suck shit” to “Biden will do I guess”
Outside of maga and Gaza activists, where are you hearing that Biden sucks?
And speaking of Gaza, didn’t Trump say that he wants Israel to finish there as fast as possible?
which is honestly one of the three options
and the same one biden seems to be encouraging, he’s just not dumb enough to say it.
Given that neither Trump nor Biden are Prime Minister of Israel, I think it’s the most realistic option. Given that the rest of the world wants to jump in with embargoes and resolutions and even actions, it may also be more realistic to maintain any influence.
no the good options both involve bombing the kapo trash, then bombing the kapo trash, then bombing the kapo trash some more. you do not have influence over ‘Israel’, its a mad dog that needs to be put the fuck down.
Even with FDR, we had the whole concentration camps things. The bad with the good.
I tend to point out to people that those complaining about Biden tend to be unable to accurately back up the vast majority of their complaints. They also go oddly silent when someone comes back with a reasoned argument.
there isn’t really a reasoned pro biden argument, is the thing. not unless you keep it real shallow.
I’d say it is reasonable to say Biden has been the most progressive president since Johnson signed the civil rights bill. It surprised the hell out of me.
again, that’s not pro biden. that’s a brutal indictment of everyone else, and a suggestion that our votes don’t matter.
Our votes literally brought Biden into the Presidency. ANY progress that has been made is specifically because our votes mattered. They have always mattered. The brutal truth is a combination of apathy, disenfranchisement, deconstructing the public school system, and a sprinkle of brainwashing has caused too many people to not vote. Apathy at the top for a reason.
Moreover, Biden has rolled over when our voices become loud enough on a handful of issues. He has also completed several of the promises he made and is in progress on several more.
Literally, all because we came together and voted him into the position. Is he perfect? Nope. He could be better. Yet I am inclined to give him at least a partial pass due to the division of the entire nation caused in large part due to Trump’s Republican Party. Say what you will, Biden has NOT had it easy.
have you ever talked to a trump cultist?
has he rolled over? has he managed half his campaign promises? the ones people wanted? even just the ones that could be executive orders?
(no he fucking hasn’t)
I don’t give a shit how hard he’s got it. if he’s that tired, he should’ve stepped the fuckdownamd let someone competent, who could easily beat trump, have a shot.
the only reason anyone votes for biden is Donald trump. if either party ran someone competent, or ecen just someone who wasnt an octogenarian fascist (crypto or balls slapping against a swastika as he screams ‘work will make you freeeeee!’) they would wipe the god damn floor with either of these fucking clowns. they won’t though. and that’s why I’m not voting.
also, I’m in California. my vote literally did not matter, and, due to statistical fuckery, literally isn’t counted except in the ‘popular vote’ which does not matter.
and you still haven’t said anything good about him or his policies. you people are exactly like trump cultists; its really sad.
sigh
You realize an attack against the person during a discussion is right out of the GOP playbook? Anyway, I haven’t said anything directly in support of Biden because to be completely honest: That information is all over Lemmy. Even a 10 second Google search…
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/biden-promise-tracker/?ruling=true
…will find enough to work off of. Politifact just being the first link, amongst several, all of them saying the same things. Those are just his campaign promises. I won’t go into how he is actually leading and the steps he is taking, often with limited support due to the GOP, in making any form of positive progress on issues as they occur.
No, you’ve decided you know better. When you do step up it’s to bitch and complain, poke and prod, exclaim some broad truth. In reality you’ve done no research. You will listen to no argument. Meanwhile, you will expect others to do the work and then either completely disassemble it meticulously until they give up, or completely ignore the work in favor of something barely relevant.
Face it, Biden is better than you expected. No amount of anger will change that. In fact, we should be celebrating his successes more strongly to let him know we approve of the positive changes when they happen.
This is what makes me think he’s just the voice for someone else. His history is far too shit for even the mild amount of good that has happened in this admin.
Typically how this goes is that a centrist liberal Democrat will get the nomination, and then push the left and progressives to support them because this centrist liberal can be transacted with. Once in office, they’ll stomp all over the left and progressives, do literally less than the bare minimum needed to support the idea that they are in fact trying to get support from progressives and leftists, and then demand more votes four years later so progressives and the left can all get taken for another ride by some rich asshole who has more in common with Elon Musk than they do with most Americans.
Clinton more or less promised this type of governance to the left, and only tried, all too tardily, to come around after it became clear that people might actually not show up for someone who openly hates them and literally does not share their politics, and that raw identity politics alone was not going to be enough to get her into government.
Biden, surprisingly, has out of nowhere done a variety of progressive things. He allowed himself to be pushed on student loans. Like actually though. He banned non-competes, which won’t fix capitalism, but if you’re a capitalist liberal who believes in transacting with the left and in properly managing markets through policy, then that was a 100% necessary move. And he did it, without even that much fanfare.
While he’ll never be pro-labor in the way I would want to see in order to be a supporter, the fact that he is actually willing to engage in transactional politics with progressives/the left really does count for something to me. He’s still a strikebreaker and I won’t give him credit for being a pro-labor candidate, but being willing to cut deals on things here and there does mean he has something to offer.
Just want to say I appreciate the quality comment.
People coming to terms with being held hostage by First Past The Post voting.
Stockholm syndrome with your captors.
The record just needed to be corrected.
money!
I kid, they haven’t paid me yet. badum-tiss
I’ve always been on the side of “better than he gets credit for” and “as good as anyone can do in an impossible situation of dysfunctional politics”. I do believe he wants to be at least a bit closer to that yellow line
That’s not the same as thinking he’s one of the better in my lifetime, and most of my reaction is give credit where it’s sure, but also face reality. For all we criticize republicans about hiding from reality (such as global warming), why are we hiding from realities like dysfunctional politics and the limits of what one person can do?
I’m a member of a political party (not in the US, thank the Gods) and was also in one in a different country I lived in and to me it looks a lot like the Democrat Party has started activelly campaigning, so party members are out and about in, amongst other places, social media, spreading the word about their tribe, maybe with some professional help.
This also explains the increase in articles posted in forums here like World and News consistently pushing a “vote Biden or get apocalypse” message, as well as the swarming nature of downvotes for even the most well thought comment that pick holes in that political propaganda strategy (such comments are swamped by downvotes, but the ones at the top or near of threads will over time slowly get more upvotes until they’re more than the downvotes).
It looks a lot like the kind of shit I saw in social media and newspaper forums in Britain during the Leave Referendum and that stuff later was discovered to have had massive manipulation from US-based interests via Cambridge Analytica and from Russia.
This really got to the heart of what I was trying to ask. Fantastic explanation, thank you!
Nobody does opinion farming better than Israel. Not even the Russian and Chinese governments can operate at their level.
… Why the hell would Isreal want Biden over Trump? Netanyahu would love a Trump presidency.
The bots stoking the hexbear genocide Joe thing were retasked I guess.
You’ll notice they come from the big 4 most propagandized instances. Almost certainly a mix of willing idiots and active manipulation
To clarify, you’re saying it’s folks from the popular instances trying to rebrand the conversation as “Biden is cool as fuck actually” as well as folks willing to just roll with that? Or am I misinterpreting?
(I gotta stop making comments on lemmy when I’m stoned and only have 2 brain cells)TBH I misread as well, I was talking about the comparisons between Biden and Hitler. I’ve been seeing a lot more of “people” saying they’re not going to vote at all and encouraging others to do so, which will just result in a trump presidency.
Gotcha, so maybe the sudden positive feeling about Biden is more of a reaction to that mindset to try and sway folks back to voting? That’d certainly make sense to me.
Certainly could be. Biden should absolutely be criticized for his shortcomings, as any president should. But there’s no better option right now so it’s really about damage control more than anything
bots and paid shills, I expect. thats the impression I got trying g to talk to them. or just straight up cultists.
probably a reaction to him so enthusiastically backing a fucking genocide.
This is anecdotal evidence and should be disregarded.
I’m sorry sir but that’s just an opinion, you’ll need a citation for that.