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When my best friend transitioned it was like watching someone begin to exist. Nothing was lost when she came out. She became MORE. More vibrant, more alive, more enthusiastic, more driven, more creative, more HERSELF. It was like the one who was there pre-transition wasn’t even a whole person but just a shell or a mask. I’m so fucking proud of her ;~; <3
Can only confirm this. Since I had to finally acknowledge, that I’m trans life really does feel different. For the first time in literal years I have been able to feel true happiness. Prior to my realisation life kinda sucked. It was more like a monotonous stream of time where nothing really happened.
Yeeesh… I’m not sure if that’s the kind of message you want to send… Imagine someone who’s in a position where they can’t transition reading that, you’re basically telling them that right now they’re a huge loser that should die…
The joke is that they already think that about themselves. The suicide rate for trans people, especially those who can’t transition, is extremely high.
When I realized I was trans I knew I had no choice but to do it, damn the consequences, because I could see the other option would only lead to my death in a pit of despair and self-hatred.
idk there’s a number of reasons why someone could choose to detransiton or delay transition, even for many years because they see no other way to survive. They’re still people and their lives are still valuable even in that state.
To make a crude analogy, it feels a bit like the ableist “fate worse than death” stuff that disabled people have to hear occasionally. Like yes, some people do live in a compromised state! It sucks but it’s life
I know it’s higher than average, but reinforcing the feeling that suicide might be the best thing they could do because the person they are before transitioning is the biggest loser ever and people should be glad that they’re dead? I don’t think that’s ok.
The post isn’t really advocating suicide, though. It is pointing out an alternative.
Sure, but as I mentioned in my first comment, not everyone is in a position where they can seek the alternative
True, but I don’t think this post is likely to push anyone over the edge, and that really has more to do with the lethality of their situation than the use of self-deprecating humour to reach people.
As someone who’s been there, this whole line of reasoning just feels like pearl-clutching.
You’re really working hard to miss the point here. I can’t help feeling that it’s on purpose.
Not trans (I think, arguments for closeted gender fluid could be made I suppose but that’s a different conversation I don’t think I’m ready to have) but if I were trans that’s exactly how I would feel. That a person who has been able to transition is, albeit indirectly, calling me a piece of shit loser who needs to die in order to be happy.
I’m glad OOP is happy and at least on the surface is confident, but the post just made me feel weird.
The sentiment of “oh no I’m watching someone die/mourning the death of my friend/son/daughter/cousin/whatever” can get fucked though. I guess you could see it as losing someone, but guess what, you didn’t lose anyone. The person is still the person, they might act outwardly more in line with how they feel, but they are still around. Instead of lamenting the loss of a son, celebrate the arrival of your daughter. Your cousin might look and sound different, but they still enjoy talking shit about video game companies and politicians. The woman standing at the mechanic desk is still perfectly knowledgeable about everything they were before.
Just because you weren’t aware of your daughter before she came out, doesn’t make her any less valid being here now. If you can’t handle that, well pour out your crocodile tears and have your narcissistic fit of “woe is me I have experienced such loss” I guess
Maybe its the psych nurse in me who already likes watching people come out of a depression but that’s what it most looks like with (most) of the people I’ve known, especially those that need hormones / surgery to improve their mental health. Like the ones that look bony or bloated or ashy or greasy with circles under their eyes and matted beadhead and uncontrolled acne everywhere from not wanting to look at themselves in the mirror or touch their own naked body in the shower. It’s not everyone’s story but watching the ones who do come out of that is one of the most satisfying things I’ve ever seen! How do you watch that and not be hyped by it? Like I get that not everybody is willing to wash another person’s butt to get there but you can’t even admire the result?
Like I get that not everybody is willing to wash another person’s butt to get there but you can’t even admire the result?
It’s a mindset thing. To give an example, think of the “meat is murder” vegans. A hamburger is a marvel of ingenuity considering its worldwide success, yet to the people who vividly picture how it’s produced from start to finish the end result isn’t something to be admired.
The disgust is self-inflicted because their set of values cannot reconcile with the method used or the whole process itself.
So you think hambörger is more beautiful than a cow’s life?
Did you just compare transitioning to making hamburger?
I understand the analogy it’s just a bad one. It references a second set of moral values that are largely unrelated but that people can also have strong yet varied opinions on. That muddles the meaning significantly for most people.
The point being made is that people can’t appreciate the progress of someone’s journey towards peace with their own physical body -> even though they have very little to do with the messy internal parts of the process -> because they find the entire concept morally objectionable.
Which isn’t actually wrong; that is what’s happening. People are letting their very narrow and rigid set of morals interfere with being able to see the beauty of the metamorphosis in front of them. They’re too stuck on whether or not the concept itself relates to what somebody told them the bible means in Sunday School at 8 years old instead of critically evaluating… anything and everything? about those beliefs and how they relate to the well-being of the humans they actually share the world with.
I’ve met annoying vegans and I’ve met annoying “carnivores,” but I’ve also met a lot of other people who are annoying for a lot of different reasons and it doesn’t really benefit this discussion.
It’s a pretty nonsensical analogy. I think they just wanted to complain about vegans.
That’s what drew your attention? It’s not the example itself that matters, but what it tries to convey. Still, let me try with another example and if it’s not good enough, then you’re more than welcome to bring your own.
In the above comment, that I’m replying to, the commenter’s set of values cannot reconcile with the method used or the whole process itself and as such is more likely to express disgust towards the end result.
Hope it’s better, else, please partake.
Is the argument that because there is a manufacturing process involved in making a hamburger that the suffering is worth it? I didn’t torture anyone to transition.
Did you just compare being trans to being vegan?
I mean it’s a great comparison, just not for any of those reasons
I’m sorry, what? Do people actually say that?? Wtf?
Watch that Elon Musk interview with Jordan Peterson. Elon seriously says that his “son” died to “the Woke Mind Virus”. (His daughter Vivian is trans and is happily living far away from her father in Japan.)
yea, they say that, or what I’ve seen often is “im grieving the death of my son!!”
like, why not celebrate the birth of your daughter instead?
To be fair, especially to parents I get the part of grieving of someone you love not being there anymore. But if that person isn’t really dead but just a different (better) version of the person, I don’t really get how you can believe you are greaving while you’re simultaneously not keeping that person close to you? I mean, that will only make the loss worse, right?
They’re grieving the loss of who they expected their kid to be
Yeah but whatever their son/daughter was able to do before, there’s no reason they can’t do it post transition. If I use super traditional cliches to explain what I mean, their new daughter still knowns how to fix their computer / their new son still knows how to cook.
It’s an emotional reaction rooted in transphobia, not a logical one.
But to my point of a loss of expectations, that part is like when kids don’t turn out how their parents had hoped. To use another cliche, when their kid who was going to be a doctor runs off to do art instead.
Those parents that love unconditionally will let go of those expectations, learn to love their kid for who they actually are, and in time appreciate their transition as a period of growth rather than loss.
But I think that’s not a weird thing for a parent (not saying it is normal to not want to speak to your child because they are different then you expected, or to dislike them for being who they were born to be).
Yeah, the phenomenon isn’t unique to trans people if viewed through the lens of expectations for their child. It just takes on a much more extreme reaction/framing when transphobia is involved.
I don’t begrudge my mom for feeling sad about realizing I’m not who she wanted me to be, but those aren’t feelings you should voice to your child who is already struggling.
No totally fair, it’s not your fault she had those expectations as well. Any parent should be supportive of their child and I agree you are not the one she should bother with those feelings. Wish you the best.
Both my partner and parents said that, it’s quite common.
Relatives usually
If it’s just relatives saying that, you might have a good social circle, because relatives are the only ones you can’t choose.
I think it’s more like seeing someone hatch XD
OH THAT IS WHY TRANS PEOPLE IN DENIAL ARE CALLED EGGS OMG I NEVER SAW THAT BEFORE!
When my egg broke, I became a chick
Actually it’s kinda the other way around, I chose the hatching metaphor because of the egg terminology 😅
Yeah but the egg terminology exists because that’s what it’s like – hatching
I think you’re replying to a “chicken and egg” themed joke
You could be right, but I’m not sure they’re what’s happening here
Maybe insects turning from larvae to imago is a better metaphor
I pity the guy. He tried really damn hard (without much success) and then I had to murder him.
Sure somebody died but that somebody was never me, sorry (not) that the actural me exists now and the actural me is a silly catgirl :3
Sorry what is the context? I am kind of out of the loop.
When trans people transition, some people, especially parents, experience a period of grief for the person they knew. Especially transphobic ones describe that as “my son died”.
And they’re right. He killed himself so that I might live.
“You know that friend that you loved? He was a piece of shit and so are you for caring about him”
Yeah basically. The person is still there. You should celebrate, not mourn, that the person you love is taking a step towards who they want to be. Acting like you lost something is incredibly hurtful, because the person is still right there, they’re just changing. If their gender expression is the only thing that made them important to you then yes, you’re a piece of shit.
He was a piece of shit and so are you for caring about him
The friend is not gone. This implies that you cared about who they were and not who they are. Any mourning is just an indicator that you don’t actually love this person, you love who you thought they were and don’t actually care about their happiness. Abusive behavior.
I’m not philosophizing. I’m interpreting what the person in OPs screenshot was saying, which seems to be “fuck you for caring about the person I was when you got to know me”.
No, it’s about the person they thought they were. You don’t magically transform into a different person when you transition. You just become more authentically the person you already were.
If your “friend” has a problem with you because they find out you’re trans, they’re a bigot.
That person still exists. Mourning their loss shows you don’t actually love them as they are.
I don’t think that’s fair. You can be happy for what someone achieved and mourn what you used to have at the same time. I have friends who got married and had kids. They’re happy and I’m happy for them. I’m still sad the old days are over when we could just drink beer in the back yard whenever we felt like it.
How is that analogous to transitioning, though? You can do the same things with your trans friends as with your cis friends, right?
What do you lose when someone transitions? They’re still the same person, just happier and expressing themselves truly. You lose nothing. The only loss to be mourned would be a relationship that’s no longer compatible. It’s a change, but it’s a positive one, and expressing any form of loss to someone going through such a difficult and scary time is incredibly hurtful.
Though, you generally don’t tell that to their face, not in that way, and certainly not when they’re confiding in you about/celebrating finding themselves. That’s simply hurtful, and beyond rude.
You generally won’t go up to your friends on their wedding day, and say the same phrase. You’re more likely to put it as “I’ll miss drinking with you in the back yard, but I’m happy you’re happy”, and not as a seriously-spoken “It’s like watching my friend die!”.
