Personally, I’m a bigger fan of Revolt… or at least the idea of it. The GUI is nearly identical to discord, the basics are all there, all they need is time to get it fleshed out and working. Also it’s open source, so that’s a plus.
Edit: I should clarify, it does work. But the team is small and the current vision is large. To get Revolt to be equal with discord would probably take a couple years. That being said, if you want a strictly text and voice chat platform with built in css editing, Revolt is a good option.
Does Matrix have screen sharing where multiple participants can screen share simultaneously yet? Because that’s the feature all of my friends use.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Discord, but if no one brings up screen sharing when Matrix is mentioned as an alternative then it’ll never be implemented.
That’s a somewhat weird, to me, use case. Even in a business setting, we share our screens with colleagues via meet or slack only one or two at a time. How does this work on Discord and why would a party of people do it?
Friends and I will stream games in a channel, sometimes our perspective of the same game, sometimes different games we’re playing on our own. Just four or five of us, not like fifty.
I first dabbled with Linux around 2015 by dual booting. Ran into too many issues, then I royally fucked shit up by accidentally deleting the bootloader or something, so I was pretty hesitant to try again. I finally got a hold of a surplus laptop from work so I could install Mint on it without any worry that I’d lose important data.
I’ve been using that as my primary PC for a few months now. I’ve run into some minor challenges, but nothing critical that I couldn’t figure out with a search engine.
I had another old laptop still running Windows 7 that has been having weird issues, but I’d been too lazy to backup the files so I could wipe it. I finally pulled the trigger today, fully wiped it, and installed Mint on it.
I’m not ready to preach Linux to my “normie” friends yet, but do mention it to them here and there in hopes I’ll be able to bring them over in the future.
It might be slow but its happening. Linux just has 1 more barrier for me to switch: games with kernal anti cheats.
“Dual boot” - I’d have to switch so often its not funny, I value my time at least a little bit ok
“Don’t play those games” - I have friends, those friends want to play those games, I want to hang out with those friends because they’re fun people
Jokes aside, few games (which I don’t remember) check if the gaming device is a Steam Deck, and accordingly allow the games to run by turning on user-space anticheat.
I’m torn between wether the right response to that one is wanting Linux to support them, or refuse to play games that insist on requiring malware to play their game.
There are in fact many games with functioning anticheats that do not require kernel access. And there are also plenty of games with kernel level anticheat that is easily bypassed by, and thus are full of, cheaters.
Know why? Because the difference is “does the game’s moderation team give a fuck?”.
That’s it. That’s what makes the difference. Kernel level anticheat is a band-aid solution that’s cheaper than paying a decent support team what they’re worth. And if they’d rather pay for a half-assed software solution that’s also a gaping hole in user security, then you shouldn’t play the game in the first place. I don’t negotiate with terrorists, and neither should you.
Is there a fool-proof beginner’s guide for Matrix? I started reading the documentation the other day and got a bit overwhelmed. Never did end up figuring out how to use it.
You probably already know that its federated, so first step would be picking a server. I would pick one that is on your continent from this list. https://servers.joinmatrix.org/
I would not recommend using the matrix.org server but im too lazy right now to explain why. (basically the same as the arguments against pushing users to lemmy.world)
I would also not use a web based client long term. In the next step you will need to for registration, which is kind of stupid, but you can just log out of the web client after the registration is done.
===========================================
Im just gonna randomly pick the server https://gemeinsam.jetzt/ (Austria) from the earlier list. From the list it links you to https://element.gemeinsam.jetzt/ for registration. If you click on “Create Account” it will give you this prompt:
After you fill everything out (+ email confirmation) you will be logged in. Now you have an account that you can use to log into a proper client with an address that look like this @username:gemeinsam.jetzt
You can now log out of the web client as you dont need it anymore. (It might warn you that you are logging out of your last device/session but thats ok).
===========================================
Now you can pick a client (there are many but these are the most up to date ones).
So now you have an account on a server of your choosing and a client which means you just give the client your full address like @username:gemeinsam.jetzt to log in and the client will automatically figure out what server your account is on. Put in your password and you are logged in.
Every time you log into a new client, it creates a new session/device that will have its own independent set of message encryption keys unless verified by another existing device/session. That means to keep your keys synchronized (and messages readable) the client will always request you to verify new devices (other than the first one) upon login.
As you logged out of the only remaining session/device earlier, this newly created one should again be the first and only one of the account. You can verify this in the client settings by looking at the “Sessions” section.
Thats basically it for the initial setup. See following section for why you should have either multiple devices/sessions or set up a recovery key.
===========================================
Your messages are stored in your account data on your server, but they are encrypted, so if you lose access to all your devices, then all those messages are gone. To prevent that you can create a “recovery key” which is just a long password that is used to encrypt your encryption keys so they too can be stored safely on your server. This allows you to restore your messages even if all devices are lost by entering the recovery key after logging in from a new device.
If you want to use multiple devices just log in on that device and follow the prompt to “verify this session from another device”. (works by QR code or comparing some emojis) By verifying a session, you synchronize all your message encryption keys to that device/session. The easiest way to verify new devices is like this, by using an existing device.
Let me know if you get stuck anywhere and i will try to help you out :)
So, I just picked a server, and created a private space for me and a handful of friends (we have a Discord server that I’d like to move over). Do you recommend turning on encryption for our rooms, or is it enough that our space is private? Will I have to worry about my friends maintaining their keys, or is that handled pretty automatically by the various clients? etc… Thanks!
Nice, glad it worked out. The only time you dont use encryption would be large rooms (>100 users) because eventually joining the room will slow down a lot for new people due to all the key sync stuff. So i would turn it on in your case.
Unencrypted messages can be read by the server administrators of all the servers that have one of their users in your room.
As long as everyone verifies their own devices there shouldnt be any need to think about encryption key stuff.
You can also verify other peoples identity (is this session im talking to really used by person X?) in person by scanning a QR code on their device but thats not functionally necessary.
(But more seriously, thank you for the info. This looks involved, so I may attempt it this weekend. Discord declined so rapidly I had to stop using it before finding an alternative.)
I just did this to test out the process for a client who has to replace skype in their workplace, and it wasn’t bad.
I looked up servers on the web, picked the privacy DIY server, installed Element app, registered in the app using a “token” from the server website, confirmed via email - web link, and done, about 15 minutes plus figuring out the token part (had to reread instructions).
Ah I guess that was confusingly written, no you just need to have an email address to register an account, and when you register you get a verification email at that address and click on the link in the email to verify. Like almost any other social media.
If you’re on lemmy then there’s nothing that new and different about matrix. It’s the same idea for chat apps: you can join an existing server, or host your own. Matrix doesn’t federate, so you just need to add whatever new servers you want to join.
Element is one of the bigger client apps. Matrix.org is the biggest server. Those will get you started.
That’s just natural. Discord has a huge weight of numbers. People stay where they already are, unless there is significant motivation to move.
Matrix would have to be MUCH better than Discord in terms of features to attract people to move their whole communities and friend groups, not just simply on-par. And that’s pretty tough.
So yes - we’re basically waiting for Discord to continue its slow march into enshittification.
The worse discord becomes, the easier it will be to convince people to switch to matrix :)
Personally, I’m a bigger fan of Revolt… or at least the idea of it. The GUI is nearly identical to discord, the basics are all there, all they need is time to get it fleshed out and working. Also it’s open source, so that’s a plus. Edit: I should clarify, it does work. But the team is small and the current vision is large. To get Revolt to be equal with discord would probably take a couple years. That being said, if you want a strictly text and voice chat platform with built in css editing, Revolt is a good option.
Does Matrix have screen sharing where multiple participants can screen share simultaneously yet? Because that’s the feature all of my friends use.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Discord, but if no one brings up screen sharing when Matrix is mentioned as an alternative then it’ll never be implemented.
That’s a somewhat weird, to me, use case. Even in a business setting, we share our screens with colleagues via meet or slack only one or two at a time. How does this work on Discord and why would a party of people do it?
Friends and I will stream games in a channel, sometimes our perspective of the same game, sometimes different games we’re playing on our own. Just four or five of us, not like fifty.
I spent so long making a reply to Dubyakay and you said just as much in a quarter of the words! Cheers!
We’ve been saying that about Windows and Linux for forever.
It’s happening. Slowly.
I first dabbled with Linux around 2015 by dual booting. Ran into too many issues, then I royally fucked shit up by accidentally deleting the bootloader or something, so I was pretty hesitant to try again. I finally got a hold of a surplus laptop from work so I could install Mint on it without any worry that I’d lose important data.
I’ve been using that as my primary PC for a few months now. I’ve run into some minor challenges, but nothing critical that I couldn’t figure out with a search engine.
I had another old laptop still running Windows 7 that has been having weird issues, but I’d been too lazy to backup the files so I could wipe it. I finally pulled the trigger today, fully wiped it, and installed Mint on it.
I’m not ready to preach Linux to my “normie” friends yet, but do mention it to them here and there in hopes I’ll be able to bring them over in the future.
It might be slow but its happening. Linux just has 1 more barrier for me to switch: games with kernal anti cheats.
“Dual boot” - I’d have to switch so often its not funny, I value my time at least a little bit ok “Don’t play those games” - I have friends, those friends want to play those games, I want to hang out with those friends because they’re fun people
I just got a Steam deck for that. It’s really worth it imo. Linux for my PC, steam deck for games.
How does steam deck handle kernel level anticheat any differently than arch?
That’s the neat part; it doesn’t.
Jokes aside, few games (which I don’t remember) check if the gaming device is a Steam Deck, and accordingly allow the games to run by turning on user-space anticheat.
I’m torn between wether the right response to that one is wanting Linux to support them, or refuse to play games that insist on requiring malware to play their game.
The latter. Always the latter. You know why?
There are in fact many games with functioning anticheats that do not require kernel access. And there are also plenty of games with kernel level anticheat that is easily bypassed by, and thus are full of, cheaters.
Know why? Because the difference is “does the game’s moderation team give a fuck?”.
That’s it. That’s what makes the difference. Kernel level anticheat is a band-aid solution that’s cheaper than paying a decent support team what they’re worth. And if they’d rather pay for a half-assed software solution that’s also a gaping hole in user security, then you shouldn’t play the game in the first place. I don’t negotiate with terrorists, and neither should you.
And it is slowly happening :)
Is there a fool-proof beginner’s guide for Matrix? I started reading the documentation the other day and got a bit overwhelmed. Never did end up figuring out how to use it.
You probably already know that its federated, so first step would be picking a server. I would pick one that is on your continent from this list. https://servers.joinmatrix.org/
I would not recommend using the
matrix.orgserver but im too lazy right now to explain why. (basically the same as the arguments against pushing users to lemmy.world)I would also not use a web based client long term. In the next step you will need to for registration, which is kind of stupid, but you can just log out of the web client after the registration is done.
===========================================
Im just gonna randomly pick the server https://gemeinsam.jetzt/ (Austria) from the earlier list. From the list it links you to https://element.gemeinsam.jetzt/ for registration. If you click on “Create Account” it will give you this prompt:
After you fill everything out (+ email confirmation) you will be logged in. Now you have an account that you can use to log into a proper client with an address that look like this
@username:gemeinsam.jetztYou can now log out of the web client as you dont need it anymore. (It might warn you that you are logging out of your last device/session but thats ok).
===========================================
Now you can pick a client (there are many but these are the most up to date ones).
For desktop use: https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/element/
For mobile use the newer: https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/element-x/
So now you have an account on a server of your choosing and a client which means you just give the client your full address like
@username:gemeinsam.jetztto log in and the client will automatically figure out what server your account is on. Put in your password and you are logged in.Every time you log into a new client, it creates a new session/device that will have its own independent set of message encryption keys unless verified by another existing device/session. That means to keep your keys synchronized (and messages readable) the client will always request you to verify new devices (other than the first one) upon login.
As you logged out of the only remaining session/device earlier, this newly created one should again be the first and only one of the account. You can verify this in the client settings by looking at the “Sessions” section.
Thats basically it for the initial setup. See following section for why you should have either multiple devices/sessions or set up a recovery key.
===========================================
Your messages are stored in your account data on your server, but they are encrypted, so if you lose access to all your devices, then all those messages are gone. To prevent that you can create a “recovery key” which is just a long password that is used to encrypt your encryption keys so they too can be stored safely on your server. This allows you to restore your messages even if all devices are lost by entering the recovery key after logging in from a new device.
If you want to use multiple devices just log in on that device and follow the prompt to “verify this session from another device”. (works by QR code or comparing some emojis) By verifying a session, you synchronize all your message encryption keys to that device/session. The easiest way to verify new devices is like this, by using an existing device.
Let me know if you get stuck anywhere and i will try to help you out :)
This is awesome–thank you!
So, I just picked a server, and created a private space for me and a handful of friends (we have a Discord server that I’d like to move over). Do you recommend turning on encryption for our rooms, or is it enough that our space is private? Will I have to worry about my friends maintaining their keys, or is that handled pretty automatically by the various clients? etc… Thanks!
Nice, glad it worked out. The only time you dont use encryption would be large rooms (>100 users) because eventually joining the room will slow down a lot for new people due to all the key sync stuff. So i would turn it on in your case.
Unencrypted messages can be read by the server administrators of all the servers that have one of their users in your room.
As long as everyone verifies their own devices there shouldnt be any need to think about encryption key stuff.
You can also verify other peoples identity (is this session im talking to really used by person X?) in person by scanning a QR code on their device but thats not functionally necessary.
Upvoted for visibility. Saved for later.
Forgotten in an instant.
(But more seriously, thank you for the info. This looks involved, so I may attempt it this weekend. Discord declined so rapidly I had to stop using it before finding an alternative.)
I just did this to test out the process for a client who has to replace skype in their workplace, and it wasn’t bad.
I looked up servers on the web, picked the privacy DIY server, installed Element app, registered in the app using a “token” from the server website, confirmed via email - web link, and done, about 15 minutes plus figuring out the token part (had to reread instructions).
Does this mean we need to be hosting an email server too? I should just go look at the docs lol, this news might push me over the edge.
Ah I guess that was confusingly written, no you just need to have an email address to register an account, and when you register you get a verification email at that address and click on the link in the email to verify. Like almost any other social media.
If you’re on lemmy then there’s nothing that new and different about matrix. It’s the same idea for chat apps: you can join an existing server, or host your own. Matrix doesn’t federate, so you just need to add whatever new servers you want to join.
Element is one of the bigger client apps. Matrix.org is the biggest server. Those will get you started.
Isn’t it a shame that it takes discord to get worse and not matrix to get better?
Any service whose main strength is “OSS, privacy, freedom, security” will usually never hit mainstream success. I say this as a FOSS enthusiast.
You need funding to get better easier, which is something matrix doesnt have alot of
That’s just natural. Discord has a huge weight of numbers. People stay where they already are, unless there is significant motivation to move.
Matrix would have to be MUCH better than Discord in terms of features to attract people to move their whole communities and friend groups, not just simply on-par. And that’s pretty tough.
So yes - we’re basically waiting for Discord to continue its slow march into enshittification.
Yeah all of my friends are on discord, many of them its my only way to communicate with them even though we met irl. I kinda have to use it
Matrix is getting better constantly tho. I havent had any issues introducing non techie people to it.
it is getting better at least
You mean switch to Jabber, right?