None of those airplanes even have similar capabilities. Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.
The only alternative is to wait 15+(realistically 20+) years for a 6gen plane from Europe. And with the alliance dying, who knows how much longer it will take now
Rafale and Gripen are more expensive and in many ways, less good. There is a reason why noone is buying them, or even if they did, they still want to buy more F-35.
Both are cheaper than F35… Do you have an access to the internet? The reason people were buying US planes is they thought the US walked the talk. They clearly don’t, so they won’t sell those anymore.
Alliance isn’t dying, just the US isn’t really part of it anymore. The need for alliance is all the more stronger and it’s imperative to remove all dependency on the US defense industry within that alliance. The US dropping military aid for Ukraine proves the US is a dishonourable country and shouldn’t be trusted for anything anymore. By all indications, the US is surrendering to Russia because Trump is afraid of Putin.
The capabilities of the F-35 only represents the capability of an adversary now. We should use the ones we have to develop radar systems so we can shoot them down, and reverse engineer it’s capabilities to improve the fighter aircraft produced by the free world (which no longer includes the US).
F35 is far more expensive to operate, so you end up paying more over the lifetime if you actually use it.
Of course the other aircraft don’t have a bunch of fancy features of the F35, but maybe we don’t need them, particularly in light of the US hostility and unpredictability. And the benefit of building our own is a factor as well.
As I undertand it, the F35 has only about 55% readiness and suffers SW problems as well.
The US is not the only game in town, and we need to be clear about that.
It is a little princessy(what stealth aircraft isnt) but it doesnt cost that much to run. It only requires specialized facilities.
F-35 readiness is on par with other comparable planes and will only get better (superior to other fighters) the more infrastructure is built. You would be shocked if you saw the readiness levels of other planes but that doesnt sell.
It is important to note that much of the bad reputation of the f-35 is because
Outdated data from early development of the plane. The F-16(or any plane), the (currently) cheap, reliable and available workhorse had an even worse start.
Because there is free press in the West, you hear about everything that goes wrong. This is not the case for planes from authoritarian countries.
A lot of the misinformation comes and/or is amplified literally from enemy state propaganda.
A lot of the issues of the F-35 are about the vertical takeoff variant(F-35B). Or about a new updated version(block) of the F-35 that is still in testing.
“F-35 bad” is(though less so nowadays) an internet meme. I am still waiting for the internet to explain how this terrible fighter can do 20 to 1 kill ratio vs non stealth planes in exercises.
Ask yourself why is the F-35 the best selling fighter. Why is noone buying F-15, F-18 or F-16. Those planes still sell but on much more limited quantities and mostly because F-35 production cant catch up with demand(or because not all american allies are allowed to buy the F-35).
Now obviously if America is hostile to Europe, shit is gonna get really weird. While the Rafale and Gripen are capable planes, they cannot replace the F-35.
Look what is happening in Ukraine. The air space is extremely hostile to non stealth planes. This is the kind of environment that the F-35 can fight in, though ideally you want B2 to bomb most antiair defenses. Non stealth aircraft can fight too but it is infinitely risker and with significantly reduced capabilities.
The F-35 is the start of a new doctrine(for non american airforces), not just a plane.
You forgot to mention the difference in maintenance costs. The F-35 is the most expensive fighter jet not only to acquire but also to maintain. It’s a money pit. It’s beautiful and 6th gen and all that’s grand. But it’s not good enough to justify the difference in prices.
Everyone who can get it(allied to the US), has already ordered it or will soon. The only exceptions are Sweden and France, who wanted to maintain some degree of strategic independence and not lose their jet fighter building capability. And Spain, though Spain was also kinda thinking of getting F-35 too(before Trump).
Canada was like Sweden and France, they could manufacture capable planes. But this is immensely expensive. Thats why Canada(and most countries) stopped doing it. This is why the F-35 is cheap, economies of scale, and why countries are willing to wait 5+ years to get it(while rafale and Gripen are basically readily available).
Europe wanted to coast through 5gen planes by using the F-35 while skipping ahead and developing, 2 completely different apparently, 6gen planes by 2040ish.
Being agile is kinda irrelevant if one can detect, lock and launch missiles tens of kilometers before the other plane can even detect it. Real life is not Top Gun. This is why everyone is buying the F-35.
There is a reason why China is spending billions designing and making stealth fighters, bombers and drones.
Agility isnt useless but it is highly overrated mostly by Russia, because they cant afford to produce(in relevant quantities) a stealth plane.
Russia has a different approach to the problem: Very aggressive jamming.
Sure, you can see them before they can see you, but those missiles are gonna be much less effective at tracking and destroying targets.
Stealth is being as quiet as possible, Russian jets are so damn “loud” that you don’t know which target is the real one.
Once within range for a more traditional dogfight it’s basically a coin toss, mostly down to the pilots and the reliability of the plane’s hardware.
None of those airplanes even have similar capabilities. Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.
The only alternative is to wait 15+(realistically 20+) years for a 6gen plane from Europe. And with the alliance dying, who knows how much longer it will take now
Rafale and Gripen are more expensive and in many ways, less good. There is a reason why noone is buying them, or even if they did, they still want to buy more F-35.
Both are cheaper than F35… Do you have an access to the internet? The reason people were buying US planes is they thought the US walked the talk. They clearly don’t, so they won’t sell those anymore.
Alliance isn’t dying, just the US isn’t really part of it anymore. The need for alliance is all the more stronger and it’s imperative to remove all dependency on the US defense industry within that alliance. The US dropping military aid for Ukraine proves the US is a dishonourable country and shouldn’t be trusted for anything anymore. By all indications, the US is surrendering to Russia because Trump is afraid of Putin.
The capabilities of the F-35 only represents the capability of an adversary now. We should use the ones we have to develop radar systems so we can shoot them down, and reverse engineer it’s capabilities to improve the fighter aircraft produced by the free world (which no longer includes the US).
F35 is far more expensive to operate, so you end up paying more over the lifetime if you actually use it.
Of course the other aircraft don’t have a bunch of fancy features of the F35, but maybe we don’t need them, particularly in light of the US hostility and unpredictability. And the benefit of building our own is a factor as well.
As I undertand it, the F35 has only about 55% readiness and suffers SW problems as well.
The US is not the only game in town, and we need to be clear about that.
It is a little princessy(what stealth aircraft isnt) but it doesnt cost that much to run. It only requires specialized facilities.
F-35 readiness is on par with other comparable planes and will only get better (superior to other fighters) the more infrastructure is built. You would be shocked if you saw the readiness levels of other planes but that doesnt sell.
It is important to note that much of the bad reputation of the f-35 is because
Ask yourself why is the F-35 the best selling fighter. Why is noone buying F-15, F-18 or F-16. Those planes still sell but on much more limited quantities and mostly because F-35 production cant catch up with demand(or because not all american allies are allowed to buy the F-35).
Now obviously if America is hostile to Europe, shit is gonna get really weird. While the Rafale and Gripen are capable planes, they cannot replace the F-35.
Look what is happening in Ukraine. The air space is extremely hostile to non stealth planes. This is the kind of environment that the F-35 can fight in, though ideally you want B2 to bomb most antiair defenses. Non stealth aircraft can fight too but it is infinitely risker and with significantly reduced capabilities.
The F-35 is the start of a new doctrine(for non american airforces), not just a plane.
The critical tradeoff is not F35 or a worse plane. The critical tradeoff is American or not.
You forgot to mention the difference in maintenance costs. The F-35 is the most expensive fighter jet not only to acquire but also to maintain. It’s a money pit. It’s beautiful and 6th gen and all that’s grand. But it’s not good enough to justify the difference in prices.
The reason for Germany is that other aircraft, by choice, have not been certified for use with US nuclear weapons.
Nuke capability is irrelevant for most countries(rafale has a nuke capable variant, though only for French nukes). Take a look at its operators
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_operators
Everyone who can get it(allied to the US), has already ordered it or will soon. The only exceptions are Sweden and France, who wanted to maintain some degree of strategic independence and not lose their jet fighter building capability. And Spain, though Spain was also kinda thinking of getting F-35 too(before Trump).
Canada was like Sweden and France, they could manufacture capable planes. But this is immensely expensive. Thats why Canada(and most countries) stopped doing it. This is why the F-35 is cheap, economies of scale, and why countries are willing to wait 5+ years to get it(while rafale and Gripen are basically readily available).
Europe wanted to coast through 5gen planes by using the F-35 while skipping ahead and developing, 2 completely different apparently, 6gen planes by 2040ish.
Rafales are not readily available, the factories have a huge order backlog.
The gripen is more agile than the f35 and capable of austere landings. Arguably more important traits than the ability to carry American nukes.
Being agile is kinda irrelevant if one can detect, lock and launch missiles tens of kilometers before the other plane can even detect it. Real life is not Top Gun. This is why everyone is buying the F-35.
There is a reason why China is spending billions designing and making stealth fighters, bombers and drones.
Agility isnt useless but it is highly overrated mostly by Russia, because they cant afford to produce(in relevant quantities) a stealth plane.
Russia has a different approach to the problem: Very aggressive jamming. Sure, you can see them before they can see you, but those missiles are gonna be much less effective at tracking and destroying targets.
Stealth is being as quiet as possible, Russian jets are so damn “loud” that you don’t know which target is the real one.
Once within range for a more traditional dogfight it’s basically a coin toss, mostly down to the pilots and the reliability of the plane’s hardware.
They buy F35 because the US is the premier supplier of arms for NATO bar none.