“It is a difficult matter for women to accept their role as servants to life, and they only succeed in so far as they find compensations in the society that subjugates them. These compensations are transmitted from mother to daughter, perpetuating the subjugation.”
(The Second Sex)
“The fact that we are human beings is infinitely more important than all the peculiarities that distinguish human beings from one another; however, women, in submitting to patriarchal society, often become the most fervent defenders of their own oppression.”
(The Second Sex)
“Women and men alike have been socialized to accept sexist thought and action. As a consequence, women can be just as sexist as men.”
(Feminism is for Everybody)
Emphases mine. Both notable feminist voices. Hope these can get you started on the path to overcoming your passed down misconceptions. And don’t worry—it’s not your own fault that you have this confusion— patriarchy’s greatest self defense is in subverting (lying about) the meaning of feminist language to you.
Ok, so you link texts that say that women (as well as feminism, obviously) can be just as sexist as men, yet you take affront to my pointing out that the terminology used is sexist?
Which part of it is it that you have such a hard time coming to terms with? That women, by default, is not always the victim, or is it that men is not always the perpetrator? These terms you use to defend the sexism in feminism is getting in the way of what needs to be done.
That’s not your fault, you’ve been ingrained with it. The fact that you need an A-level university course to be able to make the mental gymnastics needed to understand such language without revolting speaks for its own. Or how was it you phrased it “get you started on the path…”
“patriarchy” is literally just a greek term for a household that had a man at the head. there is no blame inherent in the term, as it describes a system, not people.
so yes. men, by default, are not always the perpetrator, and women, by default, are not always the victim. we agree on this. the system of patriarchy hurts everyone and feminism is for everyone. you continue to adamantly disagree with this over a misunderstanding of a single word.
i haven’t taken any university course on this, despite your assertion. you are just getting one word wrong, and for this again i recomend you read bell hooks; she writes short works in a way that is meant to be accessible to laypeople like us.
yet you take affront to my pointing out that the terminology used is sexist?
A system that enforces gender roles is of course going to be sexist by definition. It would be incredibly difficult to talk about a system with strictly enforced gender roles without talking about gender or their roles.
Which part of it is it that you have such a hard time coming to terms with? That women, by default, is not always the victim, or is it that men is not always the perpetrator?
That is exactly what is being said in the OP, so I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with here.
Simone de Beauvoir
Simone de Beauvoir
“It is a difficult matter for women to accept their role as servants to life, and they only succeed in so far as they find compensations in the society that subjugates them. These compensations are transmitted from mother to daughter, perpetuating the subjugation.”
(The Second Sex)
“The fact that we are human beings is infinitely more important than all the peculiarities that distinguish human beings from one another; however, women, in submitting to patriarchal society, often become the most fervent defenders of their own oppression.”
(The Second Sex)
bell hooks
bell hooks
(Feminism is for Everybody)
Emphases mine. Both notable feminist voices. Hope these can get you started on the path to overcoming your passed down misconceptions. And don’t worry—it’s not your own fault that you have this confusion— patriarchy’s greatest self defense is in subverting (lying about) the meaning of feminist language to you.
Ok, so you link texts that say that women (as well as feminism, obviously) can be just as sexist as men, yet you take affront to my pointing out that the terminology used is sexist?
Which part of it is it that you have such a hard time coming to terms with? That women, by default, is not always the victim, or is it that men is not always the perpetrator? These terms you use to defend the sexism in feminism is getting in the way of what needs to be done.
That’s not your fault, you’ve been ingrained with it. The fact that you need an A-level university course to be able to make the mental gymnastics needed to understand such language without revolting speaks for its own. Or how was it you phrased it “get you started on the path…”
precisely what @MutilationWave@lemmy.world said.
“patriarchy” is literally just a greek term for a household that had a man at the head. there is no blame inherent in the term, as it describes a system, not people.
so yes. men, by default, are not always the perpetrator, and women, by default, are not always the victim. we agree on this. the system of patriarchy hurts everyone and feminism is for everyone. you continue to adamantly disagree with this over a misunderstanding of a single word.
i haven’t taken any university course on this, despite your assertion. you are just getting one word wrong, and for this again i recomend you read bell hooks; she writes short works in a way that is meant to be accessible to laypeople like us.
Good on you for treating this person with so much patience.
It’s only the way you misconstrued patriarchy that’s at issue here. It disagrees with a fundamental part of the thinking of reducing inequity.
Of course women have been, are, and will be part of the patriarchy. You’re not wrong, people just aren’t happy with the way you expressed yourself.
A system that enforces gender roles is of course going to be sexist by definition. It would be incredibly difficult to talk about a system with strictly enforced gender roles without talking about gender or their roles.
That is exactly what is being said in the OP, so I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with here.