Honestly disgusting how the media overlooks this. No idea what these children have ever done. Irrespective of what side you support this is genocide and this should not be tolerated.
“noooo these children voted for Hamas they deserve every bit of suffering they get”
Fucking assholes.
These children can’t have voted for hamas. The last election in Palestine was in 2006.
Well I’m sure they would if we would let them not starve until the next one. Ben and his psychotic entourage, probably.
They will see all of this and serve as warriors in the next generation of hatred. Just like the other side too.
And I wonder how many of those who voted for them in 2006 are still alive…
Crazy how people acc think like this
Children didn’t vote for the Nazis in the 1930s either but they still died when we bombed German cities. Children die in wars, it’s an unfortunate fact, and Hamas just declared war on their neighbours.
Israeli children die: “bomb all of Gaza, kill as many kids as needed until Hamas is over”
Palestinian children die: “it’s just war, mate, what can I say? War sucks :(”
Screw this crap.
There’s a huge difference between an official declaration of war and warning civilians and sneaking in in early morning and killing them in their beds isn’t there?
I’m sorry but from where I am looking, whenever a civilian is killed, it’s a tragedy.
And that includes Israel as much as Hamas.
Unfortunately we don’t live in an ideal world and we have to weigh things up sometimes that aren’t pleasent.
So Israel can win because it’s stronger. In a nutshell.
This was the top story on NPR’s up first podcast today. They didn’t exactly blame Isreal directly, but they also didnt defend Israel and suggest this is somehow justified. They stuck pretty close to here is what is happening on the ground, here’s voices of those affected, this is a humanitarian tragedy and will only get worse. They mentioned a woman in Gaza rationing milk for her baby due to the food shortage, that stuck with me. So I guess #notallmedia.
The coverage on the NYT The Daily podcast was spot on what I would expect from the outlet that cheared us into invading Iraq. Trash podcast, I don’t know why I’m still subscribed. Should have dumped it after they spent a whole episode making a martyr out of the praying football coach.
NPR’s coverage has been very good so far. They are trying their best to remain impartial in a difficult situation where there is a humanitarian crisis. I think it’s the right thing to do. The media doesn’t need to point fingers at Israel when they can just report the facts and people can see where the blame lies.
I’ll second this. Every time they mention the Israeli casualty toll, they mention the Palestinian right at the same time.
While interviewing someone about Israeli response, they took the time to raise the question about plans for Palestinian civilians (unfortunately the answer was “we must destroy Hamas”, clearly indicating the civilians dying is perfectly fine by him).
Washington Post and Voxx have had a really good article as well, as well as a podcast about it on there today I learned show.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-attack-gaza-intelligence/
https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanyahu-israel-right-hamas-gaza-war-history
Also, this is crazy:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Israelis themselves in Israeli media: our own president propped up Hamas until we reached this here attack today
International media: Baaaa it’s Hamas’ fault! Do you condemn Hamas? I said, do you condemn Hamas?
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Was Pravda ever telling the truth?
Imma save this comment as an example of the word “capitalism” being used as a weird boogeyman by lemmies, such a joke lmao
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Uh ok dude?
Now tie that into capitalism please
It used to be that newsrooms operated at a loss because news was seen as a valuable service for the people. Now they have to turn a profit. That means lower budgets, not pissing off advertisers, and peddling sensationalist bullshit designed to rile people up so they engage more.
Newsrooms were not operated at a loss. Newsrooms and the business side rarely interacted so as to keep up the appearance of journalistic integrity. That is what degraded in the 80s/90s when media companies became focused on profit rather than the service they provide
What about non profit news orgs that run under capitalism? Plenty of european countries have national news outlets that don’t turn in profit.
This is what I mean, such a good example of the lemmy boogeyman lmao
You asked the OP to tie it into capitalism. I did that. I’m aware that state funded news exists.
This is what I mean, such a good example of the lemmy boogeyman lmao
I’m gonna assume you thought you had something there, I’ve no idea what though.
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Can you not use ableist language when insulting people, please?
No. Do as I ask. Tie that into capitalism please. If you can, of course.
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Capital loves Israel, especially the military industrial complex.
Sure, maybe it’s not a very direct link, but it’s part of what the people in power want.
Capital loves Israel
What
maybe it’s not a very direct link
Yeah no it’s not
Gaza has a population of 2+ million and HALF those are under 18? What? That’s a crazy statistic.
That’s what war and siege does. People lose children a lot so they have more children.
This is what it means to live in Gaza:
0–14 years: 44.1% (male 415,746/female 394,195)
15–24 years: 21.3% (male 197,797/female 194,112)
25–54 years: 28.5% (male 256,103/female 267,285)
55–64 years: 3.5% (male 33,413/female 30,592)’
65 years and over: 2.6% (male 24,863/female 22,607) (2018 est.)
Edit: source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_State_of_Palestine
Maybe I don’t know, don’t bring more people into the world if they live on a literal battlefield? I don’t even want to bring kids into america right now. I can’t imagine how selfish one would have to be to bring a child into a warzone where their life expectancy is half the norm and they will suffer the entire time.
This is just something all humans do during war. I would never want kids either but I won’t blame others for doing a completely human thing. Not having children would mean a slow extinction for them.
You live in the most sheltered country in the world and somehow have a very in depth perspective for what it’s like to live in a battlefield?
Yeah those damn Palestinians should just self-genocide because of the genocide happening to them! selfish, smh
/s
Are you trying to argue that a battlefield is a place to raise a child? 😂
Maybe the isrealis should stop making it a battlefield.
Agreed! Both sides should stop the bloodshed. What’s happening with this war is horrible.
It’s only a battlefield when Israel makes it into one, and Israel hasn’t invaded Gaza for something like 20 years.
You’re cringe
This is such an ignorant take and yet you felt compelled to share it as if it’s some obvious truth. I wish I could walk around with that kind of confidence.
You probably think they should just move too, right? Such a simple easy answer, I wonder why they can’t…
Right, because Israel is forcing them to have kids. Great comparison!
It’s either have kids or go extinct… And your comment seems like you are literally saying to them “go extinct because Israel has/had a right to control your procreation process and land”.
Gross
If you want to bring children into a world where they will suffer and die young, that’s your choice. I would rather go extinct if I’m not able to relocate (and no, I’m not saying relocation is an option for the people of Gaza).
More like I am against genocide and don’t judge humans for doing human things. It’s like saying people a crossed all existence should just not have kids and we should all die cause of your personal reasons… just like a religious person should do, your should keep your views to yourself and stop preaching them.
I understand why humans procreate and sometimes don’t have any control or luxury to that control like first world countries do… But it sounds like you rather shame humans for doing human things than actually come up with helpful solutions.
Blaming the victims of circumstances for trying to still be Human doesn’t make you superior, no matter how many times you type it from behind your privileged existence on a keyboard.
I’m an antinatalist, so I don’t think anyone should be having kids, regardless of location, status, etc.
What a sad existence that you should just live out yourself and let others do what they want. Kinda like religious person… do you, leave me and mine alone. Keep your life practice to yourself ☺️
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I can tell you’re one of the people who never fights back because it’s easier to surrender.
I don’t think it’s good or helpful to make conclusions about that person. It’s reasonable to not bring children into a bad economy… if you can afford to not have them and have lots more to fulfill you. It’s not reasonable, though, to go around judging people by whether or not they have had a child because of a situation that is totally out of control. Palestinians would easily lose the fight when outnumbered. No one is making “soldier babies” or anything like that – these are just children who deserve a good existence and not an open-air prison.
This person doesn’t want kids, kudos to them, I can’t wait for the day when the last human goes extinct but this is a totally different issue.
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
So who will be the one to blame? A normal human being getting married and having kids VS a genocidal ethnostate that wants to ethnically cleanse the natives of the land?
Would it have been morally wrong for Jews during Nazi Germany to have kids? Maybe Anne Frank should have just not been born so we can prevent her suffering?!? Come on.
First of all, thank you Snek for having a reasonable and adult discussion. And thanks to whoever cleaned up this thread (my shit included, even if the wafflehouse bit was hilarious).
I’m not really looking at this as who to point a finger at. In terms of having kids, it’s a risk/reward analysis. This is just my opinion, and I’ve never implied it’s the only right answer. But me personally; if I was living somewhere under threat of being attacked, I would not feel comfortable bringing a child into that environment.
If someone brings a child into the world and someone else dropped a bomb on that child, would I say it’s the parents fault? No, of course not. Will that parent be devastated? Yes. Will that parent have put blood, money and love into something that’s how gone? Yes. Will that parent spend the rest of their life feeling guilty about what happened? Probably. Do I personally want to put myself into that position? Hell no!
But that’s me and my opinion. Like I said earlier, parenthood is hard as it is right now. Nevermind climate change…
Thanks for clarifying
But me personally; if I was living somewhere under threat of being attacked, I would not feel comfortable bringing a child into that environment.
Me too, I wouldn’t either (heck I’m not even having kids in normal circumstances)
Climate change is also another (quite good) reason to clean up the planet and empty the orphanages first…
Calm down man, at least on the second point. Having a kid is essentially a one-way ticket, let’s encourage people being sure they can be a quality parent.
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😂
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They aren’t having more sex. You have 18 years to be a child, and then another ~60 to die. At low life expectancy, the chances of you being a child is very high.
I’m guessing condoms aren’t readily available in Gaza.
They have a life expectancy of 74, which isn’t really that bad. Egypt has like 71?
I’m just going by the numbers Snek posted.
That’s the life expectancy for the entire Palestinian population, not Gaza. In Gaza, only 2.6% (as of 2018) made it to retirement age (65 or above).
That’s better than the US isn’t it?
Well yea, every area that suffers long wars suffers from that. In Niger 50% of the population is under 15. I saw so many kids looking for work it hurt my soul.
Poverty in the US is a solvable joke by comparison.
And those kids will grow up hateful and resentful of Israel, which will make it easy to mold them into the sort of people who commit the atrocities Hamas committed. Israel is creating their own future problem.
Yes. Even if Israel “eradicates” Hamas, the idea is still there, and with the trauma that these adults and children have gone through would probably take decades to heal, and even then many won’t heal at all and become extremists.
Israel is creating their own future problem.
Which monsters like Netanyahu love. More excuse for genocide and conquest.
Kids in Germany in the 40s experienced bombing, and went on to form the European community with countries that were responsible for said bombing and acknowledged their country was in the wrong for voting in the Nazis. Why can’t Palestinian kids have the same emotional realisation?
Because Germany didn’t then exist under decades of apartheid where they were denied basic services just due to the accident of their birth. Even East Germans had it far, far better than Gazans.
The Nazis played on Germans agrievement over how they were treated post WW1 to gain support, Gaza only ended up on the situation it is now because surrounding countries kept attacking Isreal over the last 70 years and lost land to them, then Hamas/the PLO/etc have played on similar agrievements to get themselves into the leadership position and have now lead them into a war.
Are you actually claiming Israel has no culpability when it comes to the suffering of the people of Gaza?
Yes, and when you do that, no journalists will chase you to scream, “BUT DO YOU CONDEMN ISRAEL?”
No, not no culpability, but understandable reasons for what they’ve had to do for their own safety over the years.
One would think not escalating situations might be better for their own safety…
Seems to be the escalation was Hamas invasion of their country on Saturday from where I’m sitting.
Gaza only ended up on the situation it is now because surrounding countries kept attacking Isreal over the last 70 years and lost land to them, then Hamas/the PLO/etc have played on similar agrievements to get themselves into the leadership position and have now lead them into a war.
Just FYI, Gazans are refugees who were forced to the Gaza strip by… ISRAEL! Woohoo.
Yes, war creates refugees, always has. Maybe all those surrounding nations that went to war with Isreal should have considered that.
Israel didn’t exist there prior…
They took land (rather, were given land by western empires that wasn’t there’s to give) and kicked out and killed those who were there. Yeah, that’s didn’t create any resentment at all I’m sure and it’s all the attacks that happened in response that caused it.
Someone else can always be blamed. To act like Israel doesn’t share in the blame is probably one of the most ignorant statements I’ve heard.
Actually, we did have the right to give out that land as we won it from the Ottomans.
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Adding onto the other poster’s comment, another reason is because the US will never pour unlimited money and resources into these people making sure they do.
Europe didn’t pull itself up by its own bootstraps after WWII.
Why can’t Palestinian kids have the same emotional realisation?
75 years of collective trauma
and more than decade living in the open air prison
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Who would have thought that cutting energy and infrastructure along with limiting food supplies would cause a humatrian crisis in a densely populated camp…
Just yesterday fake news said, Gaza residents deserve it and Israel has every right to do it.
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We are so worried about AI destroying us, yet here we are bombing children on both sides. We are the problem.
The Palestinians I’ve met who moved to Canada, were surprised that I didn’t have horns as a Jewish person. Some less funny stereotypes too but that one was… surprising given the physical proximity of Gaza to Jewish settlements.
I’ve made some friends with people who came from there, and once they’re comfortable with opening up, what they say about the education over there makes perfect sense as to why the hate continues.
When you’re teaching kindergarten kids to stab or drive over Jews, not Israelis, Jews there’s not much hope for you to NOT be a terrorist.
The UN needs to do a better job of deradicalizing the education system over there, how that happens is way beyond my understanding.
I’m not saying Israelis can’t be assholes, but I’m absolutely positive they’re not teaching that hate in their education system.
but I’m absolutely positive they’re not teaching that hate in their education system.
I don’t know about that, but I know they do it in the army: https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2010/aug/17/israel-palestinian-territories
If Israeli authorities taught Israelis that Palestinians are not sub-human, you would not have all these Israeli Palestinians now being fired from their jobs, and you would not have these shitty photos from that Guardian article, in which this is described as “widespread”.
Dehumanizing Palestinians is Israel’s first and foremost tool… without it, you cannot make people commit atrocities. Jews were also dehumanized during the holocaust to reach the same result of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
You think Israel should continue to allow Gazans to cross the border and work in Israel after war has been declared?
Are you mad? Like are you seriously fucking crazy? They’ve been attacked, first thing you do is secure your borders.
You think Israel should continue to allow Gazans to cross the border and work in Israel after war has been declared?
Yes. Israel is wrong to commit ethnic cleansing and all the other crimes in Gaza.
This ethnic cleansing lie is so obviously and clearly debunked. It’s shocking that people are so stupid enough to repeat it .
There are millions of Arabs living peacefully within Israel’s borders. Gaza itself has one of the highest birth rates in the world and has a growing population.
Those are facts. Those facts quite clearly prove claims of genocide to be completely fabricated. No ethnic group of people are being wiped out.
One of these two groups is calling for the extermination of the other group. That is Hamas.
How was it debunked “clearly and obviously”? None of the thighs you said in any way debunk the fact that Israel is illegally killing and removing people from their land.
How’s it debunked? By reality! A genocide needs more people to die than to be born, which obviously isn’t happening. Even on the cultural front, there’s no removal from society happening.
Now you’ve got Hamas indiscriminately bombing Jerusalem, including Holy Arab religious sites, with the iron dome protecting those. Israel yet again proving it cares more about Arab lives and culture than Hamas does.
Really why are there Jewish people today after the holocaust? Because your definition of a genocide and what doesn’t make it one is dumb as fuck frankly.
If anything can distract Oprah from the land of Maui this may be it. /s?
