No, the problem is Chinese-aligned whataboutism, a hallmark of tankie bullshit. People deflect to American spying to justify Tiktok’s spying, as if people aren’t already mad at Meta, Google, Amazon, and the rest spying on them. On the individual level, one is letting anyone “get away” with spying, so saying Tiktok should “also” be able to get away with spying is complete bullshit. We can be mad about all of these companies spying at us at the same time.
Have you seen anyone respond to criticism about Facebook’s tracking policies with “oh but Tiktok also tracks you so you should be okay with this?” Because I sure haven’t, but it comes up all the time when people discuss Tiktok. It’s just so disingenuous… allow people to discuss topics, we’ll get to shitting on Facebook and Google too, don’t worry. Detracting every Tiktok convo to that just makes you appear as if you’re trying to shove their wrongdoing under the rug.
And if you’re talking about foreign policy, western social medias are already blocked in China out of the same national security concerns that’s behind a potential Tiktok ban. It is extremely dangerous to allow foreign, especially hostile powers to influence your society through the algorithms of a social media, because they have a very clear incentive to make your population elect the worst possible people and sow chaos. This is why a lot of non-western-aligned countries block western social medias, and this is why the west should also block non-western social medias. It wouldn’t be unprecedented.
You are aware thar 'murica, your golden “western democracy”, has meddled in many more elections than China, yes? The CIA has been proven to be connected to TWO Brazilian coups…
Which is why I wouldn’t blame Brazil if they banned American or otherwise western-aligned social medias. But I’m sorry, “we fucked around with others and therefore we shouldn’t ensure our own national security” is a completely lunatic take.
It really isn’t a strawman. There are two ways you can interpret the above meme:
We shouldn’t allow American companies to spy either
We should allow Chinese companies to spy too
Interpretation #1 is one of the coldest takes possible on the internet. Read the room, no one was excusing American companies of spying, and plenty of people are mad about Meta, Twitter, and the rest. Hell, the whole reason most of us are here on Lemmy is because we grew tired of more corporate social medias. The meme format here implies that the point expressed is controversial, and interpretation #1 is objectively non-controversial, so the meme is either stupid or that’s not what it’s saying.
And interpretation #2 is exactly what you just called a strawman here. It’s complete lunacy and borderline bootlicking to suggest that we should allow other companies to also spy on us. And why exactly? Just because you want to see that team “win”, at the expense of all of us losing even more?
But I have to think you’re going with interpretation #2, because of this:
First, neither coup was related to social media.
If those coups weren’t related to social media, why bring them up? We’re discussing social media here. This only makes sense if you’re playing the us vs them of geopolitics, and like, just don’t.
In the end, we want none of these companies to spy on us. And unlike domestic companies or those headquartered in allied countries, social media companies in hostile countries not only pose a risk to individual privacy, they are also a national security risk. Which is why China bans western social medias, and why the west should also ban Chinese social medias. Both of these measures are a net benefit, and neither of these measures precludes taking action against domestic or allied social medias – but unlike Bytedance, which is a Chinese company, western regulation can be enforced far easier against western social medias, and the same can be said about Chinese regulation regarding Chinese social medias.
I’m not implying anything, I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over? And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data from apps that properly implement E2EE. Even WhatsApp, a Meta product ffs, only hands over limited contact info, and big US tech has been increasingly adding E2EE to their apps and lobbying against backdoor access since the public backlash over the Snowden leaks.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
As you can probably tell from this thread, it’s very easy to say edgy inflammatory like “I’d rather China have my data”, but they rarely back it up with anything other than whatifs.
I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
So am I, but “harder” doesn’t mean “hard”.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over?
You’re confusing government - particularly the executive power - with political parties. Republicans want to manipulate the opinions of their voter base so they can get elected and be bribed by corporations. The FBI/CIA/Whatever-other-agency want to prevent their secrets from leaking, dominate and subjugate certain groups, and control global shifts of power. They, of course, also investigate illegal activities online, but that’s probably a tertiary concern at best.
And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data […]
You missed the very important word “legally”. We know, however, that the FBI doesn’t give a shit about doing things legally.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
Indeed, one is worse - but I don’t believe you’re correct in which one it is. Having LIVED a period of clear PsyOps, both internal and external, as well as seen US “security” agencies meddling with my country’s government, I’ll tell you the US is currently much more dangerous.
You missed the very important word “legally”. We know, however, that the FBI doesn’t give a shit about doing things legally.
You don’t know how end to end encryption works do you? Kinda wasting my time here if you’ve formed such a strong opinion on something you don’t actually understand lol.
Are you seriously implying the 'murican government wouldn’t get easy access to whatever data an US company has on you?
No, the problem is Chinese-aligned whataboutism, a hallmark of tankie bullshit. People deflect to American spying to justify Tiktok’s spying, as if people aren’t already mad at Meta, Google, Amazon, and the rest spying on them. On the individual level, one is letting anyone “get away” with spying, so saying Tiktok should “also” be able to get away with spying is complete bullshit. We can be mad about all of these companies spying at us at the same time.
Have you seen anyone respond to criticism about Facebook’s tracking policies with “oh but Tiktok also tracks you so you should be okay with this?” Because I sure haven’t, but it comes up all the time when people discuss Tiktok. It’s just so disingenuous… allow people to discuss topics, we’ll get to shitting on Facebook and Google too, don’t worry. Detracting every Tiktok convo to that just makes you appear as if you’re trying to shove their wrongdoing under the rug.
And if you’re talking about foreign policy, western social medias are already blocked in China out of the same national security concerns that’s behind a potential Tiktok ban. It is extremely dangerous to allow foreign, especially hostile powers to influence your society through the algorithms of a social media, because they have a very clear incentive to make your population elect the worst possible people and sow chaos. This is why a lot of non-western-aligned countries block western social medias, and this is why the west should also block non-western social medias. It wouldn’t be unprecedented.
You are aware thar 'murica, your golden “western democracy”, has meddled in many more elections than China, yes? The CIA has been proven to be connected to TWO Brazilian coups…
Which is why I wouldn’t blame Brazil if they banned American or otherwise western-aligned social medias. But I’m sorry, “we fucked around with others and therefore we shouldn’t ensure our own national security” is a completely lunatic take.
First, neither coup was related to social media. Second, that’s a strawman
It really isn’t a strawman. There are two ways you can interpret the above meme:
Interpretation #1 is one of the coldest takes possible on the internet. Read the room, no one was excusing American companies of spying, and plenty of people are mad about Meta, Twitter, and the rest. Hell, the whole reason most of us are here on Lemmy is because we grew tired of more corporate social medias. The meme format here implies that the point expressed is controversial, and interpretation #1 is objectively non-controversial, so the meme is either stupid or that’s not what it’s saying.
And interpretation #2 is exactly what you just called a strawman here. It’s complete lunacy and borderline bootlicking to suggest that we should allow other companies to also spy on us. And why exactly? Just because you want to see that team “win”, at the expense of all of us losing even more?
But I have to think you’re going with interpretation #2, because of this:
If those coups weren’t related to social media, why bring them up? We’re discussing social media here. This only makes sense if you’re playing the us vs them of geopolitics, and like, just don’t.
In the end, we want none of these companies to spy on us. And unlike domestic companies or those headquartered in allied countries, social media companies in hostile countries not only pose a risk to individual privacy, they are also a national security risk. Which is why China bans western social medias, and why the west should also ban Chinese social medias. Both of these measures are a net benefit, and neither of these measures precludes taking action against domestic or allied social medias – but unlike Bytedance, which is a Chinese company, western regulation can be enforced far easier against western social medias, and the same can be said about Chinese regulation regarding Chinese social medias.
I’m not implying anything, I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over? And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data from apps that properly implement E2EE. Even WhatsApp, a Meta product ffs, only hands over limited contact info, and big US tech has been increasingly adding E2EE to their apps and lobbying against backdoor access since the public backlash over the Snowden leaks.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
As you can probably tell from this thread, it’s very easy to say edgy inflammatory like “I’d rather China have my data”, but they rarely back it up with anything other than whatifs.
So am I, but “harder” doesn’t mean “hard”.
You’re confusing government - particularly the executive power - with political parties. Republicans want to manipulate the opinions of their voter base so they can get elected and be bribed by corporations. The FBI/CIA/Whatever-other-agency want to prevent their secrets from leaking, dominate and subjugate certain groups, and control global shifts of power. They, of course, also investigate illegal activities online, but that’s probably a tertiary concern at best.
You missed the very important word “legally”. We know, however, that the FBI doesn’t give a shit about doing things legally.
Indeed, one is worse - but I don’t believe you’re correct in which one it is. Having LIVED a period of clear PsyOps, both internal and external, as well as seen US “security” agencies meddling with my country’s government, I’ll tell you the US is currently much more dangerous.
You don’t know how end to end encryption works do you? Kinda wasting my time here if you’ve formed such a strong opinion on something you don’t actually understand lol.
YOU don’t understand how encryption works, do you?
I do, I work with it, but classic “I know your are but what am I” argument lmao
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=end+to+end+encryption+vulnerabilities