IT professionals are more the folks that install and maintain large scale computer systems and networks, like a company’s IT department or MSP. Programming is closer to engineering. Software engineering.
If they work professionally in IT, then they’re by definition “IT Professionals”.
Absolutelly, the definition of “IT Professional” starts at lower (or maybe the correct term would be “more generic, maintenance-oriented and less specialized”) levels of domain expertise than “Software Developer” and most people out there’s contact with an “IT Professional” won’t include a software developer (even in the average business, which is unlikely to directly use Programmers but will almost certainly use the services of System Administrators and Network Engineers), but saying they’re not IT Professionals would be a bit like saying that the people who design cars aren’t Auto Industry Professionals, only Car Mechanics are.
Mind you, I don’t disagree that Programming is closer to Engineering: my point is that Engineering IT Systems is still a profession in IT, just like car design (in the technical sense) is both an Engineering practice and a profession in the Auto Industry.
As an IT professional, Macs are used by people that couldn’t figure out Windows. Linux is for people that understand enough about Windows to live in constant fear of the next newsworthy workday.
As an IT professional that uses a Mac and runs multiple Linux boxes, Windows is for people who don’t know about computers. MacOS and Linux are for people who do. Some Windows people should be the other two, but live on Windows because they’ve learned enough to deal with it.
Macs are for people who want a high performance laptop with great battery life and build quality. Hardware and driver issues are extremely rare. An out of the box Unix environment and great desktop applications for everything round it out. Macs are for people who want a to get actual work done and not lose time babysitting or tinkering with their computer.
Windows usability has become worse since 7 and it’s now filled with crap and ads. The different settings applications are an embarrassment and insult to users.
couldn’t figure out windows
Decided their time is too valuable to spend it on dealing with Windows‘ bullshit.
Ha! I totally agree! But I also can’t resist defending Mac a little bit.
Maybe I’m just weird, but I grew up on Commodore, then DOS + Windows, then Windows (when it became all-in-one and not just a GUI shell over DOS). I got into Linux desktops and servers in college and will only ever do a server on Linux, of course. Throughout all of this, both software consumption and development have been constants for me.
Right now, I greatly prefer MacBooks for productivity, and I have been keeping a Windows PC going for flight simming, though I’m tempted to switch that to Linux ever since MS declared it too old to run Windows even though it’s still perfectly capable of doing everything I care about–MS just insists on “trusted platform” hardware now.
Anyways, the point I’m going for is that Mac is also for nerds, especially ones who understand Windows and Linux and just enjoy a nice workstation that combines the best of both worlds. Windows is trying to catch up with WSL, but it’s still a bolt-on, whereas Mac is BSD under the hood. I’ve been hearing about nice Linux laptop options and hope it will get to an equally nice experience, but, for now, Mac, for me, is like a new car. Sure, I used to do my own maintenance and some repairs on my old cars, but now I have a job and can pay for something that usually just works, that allows me plenty of ways to tinker, and that I can pay to have fixed when I don’t want to spend my time grinding on something unfulfilling.
Windows has completelly stopped its trend of becoming less shit over time and has actually started going backwards.
Modern Macs (having used both, I would say they aren’t really direct descendants of the original Macs but rather they’re major redesigns) already started at a point when usuability could be done better, kept improving for longer and, even though they stopped improving in terms of usability, unlike Windows they haven’t gone back.
Linux is the only one that still keeps on improving (though usuability-wise it started ever further back than Windows), though slower than the others and often in a two-steps-forward-and-one-back fashion, so it’s about to go past Windows (one might stay that it has already done so in usability and is only the large number of Windows-only applications that keeps Windows ahead) and hopefully will eventually pass Macs too.
Whilst what I expect for Linux has a big dollop of hopefulness, for the rest I think it’s pretty obvious that Windows has never surpassed Macs in terms of usability and will never do.
the point I’m going for is that Mac is also for nerds,
Don’t you find them extremely restrictive and hard to repair? I know they want the walled garden, and absolutely don’t want anyone opening up a Mac/iphone and changing hardware other than a Apple tech. That removes all the fun from tinkering with and customizing your stuff.
Fair point! I don’t know what I’ll do whenever I eventually have to replace mine. I was lucky (I guess) to get the last model that had a removable drive and the keyboard I ended up loving. I upgraded my storage to 2 gigs and felt that covered everything I cared to change on this one.
But I’ll have to seriously reconsider on future models, as I am enticed by the newer Apple chips but have certainly heard the uproar about the relatively small amount of ram offered. And now that we’re on the subject, I’m not thrilled about the idea of Apple dropping OS support (i.e., security updates) for older models. I want to upgrade when I’m ready for an overhaul in performance, not just because they want to sell more.
I guess I need to be more specific about “nerd.” I find it great for software nerdiness, but I have to admit the only physical use case nowadays is plebian: “just take my money and make it work.”
I’m in IT, from my experience, most people who use Macs either use it for media, because it is easy to use for the common man, or it is the most expensive option.
I’ve been in IT for over 20 years the most of the people who use Macs do so because there’s supported business software written for it while still being Unix under the hood.
I too been in IT for over 20 years and most people I’ve seen using Macs were Graphics Designers and Marketing types.
I’ve seen but a handfull of IT Professionals using them and I’ve seen significantly more IT Professionals using Linux for work than Macs.
My experience covers a couple of countries and various industries since I’ve worked as a contractor (a kind of Freelancer) for most of the time so moved around a lot more than people working as permanent employees would.
Maybe one or two people I’ve seen using Macs cared about it being Unix under the hood and I think all of those were the above mentioned IT Professionals who used Macs.
People doing Graphics Design and other such digital media work (which is how Marketing types commonly ended up using it) really loved them because they were easy to use, had proper color calibration together with really great quality high resolution screens (the first properly supported 4K computer screens were Mac), plus the whole Adobe Suite as well as pretty much all other top professional design and media work software has full native Mac versions. These people were, however, not computer experts in the IT Professional sense of the word (even the Graphics Designers working on Tech Startups were tech users, not tech experts) and did not at all value the “Unix under the hood” characteristic of Macs.
Yeah, during my period in Tech Startups I did see a bit more of usage of Macs than in other places (such as Finance, Software Products, Software Consultancy and even Publishing), but always felt it was driven by the whole halo of “fashionability” around Apple Products, which isn’t really a rational reason.
In my experience Mac use is also more likely in people doing Frontend work than Server-side work, maybe because the latter is not at all about visuals and most server-side work targets Linux so it’s way simpler to just have Linux in your workstation.
Then again I’ve been using Linux since the 90s so maybe I’m biased ;)
A big study by IBM showed that Mac users are more productive and cost less to support than Windows. A company won’t buy things for their foot soldiers that is “fasionable” like they will for the execs. But they’ll definitely do it if it means they need to hire fewer IT support staff.
In my experience the backend guys are more likely to use Linux compared to other folks, but a lot of them still used a Mac because they didn’t need to do a bunch of work to get Zoom or Teams working.
Having also worked with end-users, I suspect the result of that study from IBM is due to how the users that push to get a Mac tend to be more advanced end-users than your average corporate drone - big companies love to standardize and that means everybody gets the same (with the notable exception of upper management) which is almost invariably all Windows, so there’s a huge bulk of “just proficient enough with computers to do their work” people using Windows.
That said, I can see you point for backend guys chosing Mac over Linux because of the integrating headaches they would otherwise have with closed source mandatory corporate tooling: I myself have in a professional environment a far lower threshold to spend time mucking around in the OS to get something I need working than I do at home.
So what do they make of people like me who who use Linux on a Mac, with e.g. Colima or Rancher desktop - doing cloud/kubernetes/python development? I moved to a Mac a couple of years ago after 20 years of using Linux as my daily driver because frankly Bluetooth audio on Linux sucks and because I was tired of getting endless different video conference / screensharing solutions working at short notice for interviewing.
My boss very confidently proclaimed that all serious IT professionals use a Mac. Said Linux “is for programmers and nerds”
So, programmers != IT professionals, huh…
IT professionals are more the folks that install and maintain large scale computer systems and networks, like a company’s IT department or MSP. Programming is closer to engineering. Software engineering.
“IT professional” does typically lean more towards that yes, but it also encompasses software developers.
If they work professionally in IT, then they’re by definition “IT Professionals”.
Absolutelly, the definition of “IT Professional” starts at lower (or maybe the correct term would be “more generic, maintenance-oriented and less specialized”) levels of domain expertise than “Software Developer” and most people out there’s contact with an “IT Professional” won’t include a software developer (even in the average business, which is unlikely to directly use Programmers but will almost certainly use the services of System Administrators and Network Engineers), but saying they’re not IT Professionals would be a bit like saying that the people who design cars aren’t Auto Industry Professionals, only Car Mechanics are.
Mind you, I don’t disagree that Programming is closer to Engineering: my point is that Engineering IT Systems is still a profession in IT, just like car design (in the technical sense) is both an Engineering practice and a profession in the Auto Industry.
I work in devops…
…and your ideal system administrator is neither of those?
As an IT professional, Macs are used by people that couldn’t figure out Windows. Linux is for people that understand enough about Windows to live in constant fear of the next newsworthy workday.
As an IT professional that uses a Mac and runs multiple Linux boxes, Windows is for people who don’t know about computers. MacOS and Linux are for people who do. Some Windows people should be the other two, but live on Windows because they’ve learned enough to deal with it.
Macs are for people who want a high performance laptop with great battery life and build quality. Hardware and driver issues are extremely rare. An out of the box Unix environment and great desktop applications for everything round it out. Macs are for people who want a to get actual work done and not lose time babysitting or tinkering with their computer.
Windows usability has become worse since 7 and it’s now filled with crap and ads. The different settings applications are an embarrassment and insult to users.
Decided their time is too valuable to spend it on dealing with Windows‘ bullshit.
did apple pay you to write this
Ha! I totally agree! But I also can’t resist defending Mac a little bit.
Maybe I’m just weird, but I grew up on Commodore, then DOS + Windows, then Windows (when it became all-in-one and not just a GUI shell over DOS). I got into Linux desktops and servers in college and will only ever do a server on Linux, of course. Throughout all of this, both software consumption and development have been constants for me.
Right now, I greatly prefer MacBooks for productivity, and I have been keeping a Windows PC going for flight simming, though I’m tempted to switch that to Linux ever since MS declared it too old to run Windows even though it’s still perfectly capable of doing everything I care about–MS just insists on “trusted platform” hardware now.
Anyways, the point I’m going for is that Mac is also for nerds, especially ones who understand Windows and Linux and just enjoy a nice workstation that combines the best of both worlds. Windows is trying to catch up with WSL, but it’s still a bolt-on, whereas Mac is BSD under the hood. I’ve been hearing about nice Linux laptop options and hope it will get to an equally nice experience, but, for now, Mac, for me, is like a new car. Sure, I used to do my own maintenance and some repairs on my old cars, but now I have a job and can pay for something that usually just works, that allows me plenty of ways to tinker, and that I can pay to have fixed when I don’t want to spend my time grinding on something unfulfilling.
IMHO,
Windows has completelly stopped its trend of becoming less shit over time and has actually started going backwards.
Modern Macs (having used both, I would say they aren’t really direct descendants of the original Macs but rather they’re major redesigns) already started at a point when usuability could be done better, kept improving for longer and, even though they stopped improving in terms of usability, unlike Windows they haven’t gone back.
Linux is the only one that still keeps on improving (though usuability-wise it started ever further back than Windows), though slower than the others and often in a two-steps-forward-and-one-back fashion, so it’s about to go past Windows (one might stay that it has already done so in usability and is only the large number of Windows-only applications that keeps Windows ahead) and hopefully will eventually pass Macs too.
Whilst what I expect for Linux has a big dollop of hopefulness, for the rest I think it’s pretty obvious that Windows has never surpassed Macs in terms of usability and will never do.
Don’t you find them extremely restrictive and hard to repair? I know they want the walled garden, and absolutely don’t want anyone opening up a Mac/iphone and changing hardware other than a Apple tech. That removes all the fun from tinkering with and customizing your stuff.
Fair point! I don’t know what I’ll do whenever I eventually have to replace mine. I was lucky (I guess) to get the last model that had a removable drive and the keyboard I ended up loving. I upgraded my storage to 2 gigs and felt that covered everything I cared to change on this one.
But I’ll have to seriously reconsider on future models, as I am enticed by the newer Apple chips but have certainly heard the uproar about the relatively small amount of ram offered. And now that we’re on the subject, I’m not thrilled about the idea of Apple dropping OS support (i.e., security updates) for older models. I want to upgrade when I’m ready for an overhaul in performance, not just because they want to sell more.
I guess I need to be more specific about “nerd.” I find it great for software nerdiness, but I have to admit the only physical use case nowadays is plebian: “just take my money and make it work.”
TIL, not the same group.
If you laugh, even once, they throw you out of the serious IT group.
Which group do programmer socks put me in?
Trans
I say… where is your top hat, Sir! This is not stone story of a layabouts IT group! Have you no decency, Sir!
I’m in IT, from my experience, most people who use Macs either use it for media, because it is easy to use for the common man, or it is the most expensive option.
Also most people who use Macs need help from their Linux using coworkers to get anything moderately difficult done on their systems.
I’ve been in IT for over 20 years the most of the people who use Macs do so because there’s supported business software written for it while still being Unix under the hood.
I too been in IT for over 20 years and most people I’ve seen using Macs were Graphics Designers and Marketing types.
I’ve seen but a handfull of IT Professionals using them and I’ve seen significantly more IT Professionals using Linux for work than Macs.
My experience covers a couple of countries and various industries since I’ve worked as a contractor (a kind of Freelancer) for most of the time so moved around a lot more than people working as permanent employees would.
Maybe one or two people I’ve seen using Macs cared about it being Unix under the hood and I think all of those were the above mentioned IT Professionals who used Macs.
People doing Graphics Design and other such digital media work (which is how Marketing types commonly ended up using it) really loved them because they were easy to use, had proper color calibration together with really great quality high resolution screens (the first properly supported 4K computer screens were Mac), plus the whole Adobe Suite as well as pretty much all other top professional design and media work software has full native Mac versions. These people were, however, not computer experts in the IT Professional sense of the word (even the Graphics Designers working on Tech Startups were tech users, not tech experts) and did not at all value the “Unix under the hood” characteristic of Macs.
Mine was mainly at startups that did big data and open source software, and the only folks in the org who used Windows were generally the accountants.
Yeah, during my period in Tech Startups I did see a bit more of usage of Macs than in other places (such as Finance, Software Products, Software Consultancy and even Publishing), but always felt it was driven by the whole halo of “fashionability” around Apple Products, which isn’t really a rational reason.
In my experience Mac use is also more likely in people doing Frontend work than Server-side work, maybe because the latter is not at all about visuals and most server-side work targets Linux so it’s way simpler to just have Linux in your workstation.
Then again I’ve been using Linux since the 90s so maybe I’m biased ;)
A big study by IBM showed that Mac users are more productive and cost less to support than Windows. A company won’t buy things for their foot soldiers that is “fasionable” like they will for the execs. But they’ll definitely do it if it means they need to hire fewer IT support staff.
In my experience the backend guys are more likely to use Linux compared to other folks, but a lot of them still used a Mac because they didn’t need to do a bunch of work to get Zoom or Teams working.
Having also worked with end-users, I suspect the result of that study from IBM is due to how the users that push to get a Mac tend to be more advanced end-users than your average corporate drone - big companies love to standardize and that means everybody gets the same (with the notable exception of upper management) which is almost invariably all Windows, so there’s a huge bulk of “just proficient enough with computers to do their work” people using Windows.
That said, I can see you point for backend guys chosing Mac over Linux because of the integrating headaches they would otherwise have with closed source mandatory corporate tooling: I myself have in a professional environment a far lower threshold to spend time mucking around in the OS to get something I need working than I do at home.
people like your boss are awesome. managing their macs pays so stupid well, it feeds my linux home sever upgrade habit.
Looks like a win win situation.
He’s not wrong. There is a lot more money in selling hype and style, than functionality and substance. Pro’s need pay.
So what do they make of people like me who who use Linux on a Mac, with e.g. Colima or Rancher desktop - doing cloud/kubernetes/python development? I moved to a Mac a couple of years ago after 20 years of using Linux as my daily driver because frankly Bluetooth audio on Linux sucks and because I was tired of getting endless different video conference / screensharing solutions working at short notice for interviewing.