Not really true. Up to the end, the Soviets were well-fed, there were genuine issues but it was fine. The Economy was slowing down, and the Soviets were still largely planning by hand, which failed to scale well with increasing production, but necessities were more than covered. The system was working, if slowing.
A few SRs had rising nationalist movements towards the end, but up until the very end the vast majority voted to retain membership in the USSR. It wasn’t until afterwards that it began to be murdered from the top, from the botched coup, to the change in leadership roles that allowed for conflicts within what was supposed to be a centralized system.
Wealth disparity was far lower in the USSR than in post-soviet countries.
the utter irony is what killed the USSR is reforms that would have brought it into line with how you THINK it operated. In reality it was an imperialist genocidal monolith that ran roughshod over many of its “member” states that were in fact for the most part occupied territories. Lets be very clear about that right now.
I have no idea what timeline you are dealing with, but I would also like to remind you that a forcibly oppressed population is not consent. And as soon as the repression began the lift, the riots for independence started and countries broke away. The fact that even after the dissolution of the USSR the majority of former member states wanted absolutely nothing to do with a “free” Russia should be a very large hint for you.
I was not talking about wealth disparity. I was talking about quality of life. This is very well documented.
The founding member states of the soviet union were Belarus, the Russian SFSR (roughly what we consider to be Russia today), the Transcaucasian Federation (Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia), and the Ukraine. You know that “union” part of USSR? Yeah, it actually refers to a union of states. And they were the ones who pulled the plug.
the utter irony is what killed the USSR is reforms that would have brought it into line with how you THINK it operated. In reality it was an imperialist genocidal monolith that ran roughshod over many of its “member” states that were in fact for the most part occupied territories. Lets be very clear about that right now
No, it wasn’t. It was not imperialist, and supported countless anticolonial and anti-imperialist movements. It was not genocidal either.
I have no idea what timeline you are dealing with, but I would also like to remind you that a forcibly oppressed population is not consent. And as soon as the repression began the lift, the riots for independence started and countries broke away. The fact that even after the dissolution of the USSR the majority of former member states wanted absolutely nothing to do with a “free” Russia should be a very large hint for you.
This is ahistorical, again, the majority voted to retain the USSR and the majority of people say their lives were better under Socialism than Capitalism. This tracks with higher life expectancy, lower poverty rates, and other metrics in the USSR than in present post-Soviet Capitalist states. There wasn’t a “moment of lifting repression,” in fact repression increased under Capitalism with Shock Doctrine.
I was not talking about wealth disparity. I was talking about quality of life. This is very well documented.
Quality of life skyrocketed over time, they went from one of the poorest states in Europe to one of the most developed in less than a century. It is very well documented that the Soviets went from immense poverty to doubled life expectancy, 99%+ literacy rates, free healthcare and education, food security, democratization of the economy, mass scientific achievement, high rates of home ownership, and more throughout its lifetime.
The founding member states of the soviet union were Belarus, the Russian SFSR (roughly what we consider to be Russia today), the Transcaucasian Federation (Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia), and the Ukraine. You know that “union” part of USSR? Yeah, it actually refers to a union of states. And they were the ones who pulled the plug.
Oh, even more absurd, you’re pretending countries have souls.
Read Blackshirts and Reds. It’s 10 times as hard to debunk anticommunist red scare-era nonsense than it is to firehose falsehoods and half-truths.
Read Blackshirts and Reds. It’s 10 times as hard to debunk anticommunist red scare-era nonsense than it is to firehose falsehoods and half-truths.
As a few examples, all straight from Wikipedia, none of what you listed is accepted as genocide, decreasingly so after the openings of the Soviet Archives. It is extremely easy to randomly look up a western list of soviet repressions, and far harder to actually dig into what happened and if it truly constituted genocide. It’s especially telling that you ignore the rest of your nonsense that I debunked in favor of perpetuating your firehose tactics, seemingly not caring if even western historians agree with you.
And so on. Again, read Blackshirts and Reds. You might learn something. No, the USSR was by no means perfect, but it wasn’t the monstrosity you depict it as either.
You did, though. The USSR was dissolved by people very different from the original founders, in very different times and very different circumstances. Pretending member-states were in any way “founders” of Socialism is silly, it was people that did that, and different people that dissolved it.
We fucking didn’t why the fuck would we have joined NATO and the eu
Edit:If you think I am lying ask someone from a place that got occupied by the USSR most of you just go like: I saw this meme in the shit posting community time to make this my whole thing defending empires that don’t exist anymore
Which part?
Removed by mod
Not really true. Up to the end, the Soviets were well-fed, there were genuine issues but it was fine. The Economy was slowing down, and the Soviets were still largely planning by hand, which failed to scale well with increasing production, but necessities were more than covered. The system was working, if slowing.
A few SRs had rising nationalist movements towards the end, but up until the very end the vast majority voted to retain membership in the USSR. It wasn’t until afterwards that it began to be murdered from the top, from the botched coup, to the change in leadership roles that allowed for conflicts within what was supposed to be a centralized system.
Wealth disparity was far lower in the USSR than in post-soviet countries.
On top of this, the majority wished to retain Socialism and want to go back. I don’t “fling it around lightly,” this is a well-documented phenomenon, Capitalism is worse than Socialism for post-soviet countries. The USSR also wasn’t an Empire, nor was it warmongering, it materially supported anticolonial and anti-imperialist movements the world over.
the utter irony is what killed the USSR is reforms that would have brought it into line with how you THINK it operated. In reality it was an imperialist genocidal monolith that ran roughshod over many of its “member” states that were in fact for the most part occupied territories. Lets be very clear about that right now.
I have no idea what timeline you are dealing with, but I would also like to remind you that a forcibly oppressed population is not consent. And as soon as the repression began the lift, the riots for independence started and countries broke away. The fact that even after the dissolution of the USSR the majority of former member states wanted absolutely nothing to do with a “free” Russia should be a very large hint for you.
I was not talking about wealth disparity. I was talking about quality of life. This is very well documented.
The founding member states of the soviet union were Belarus, the Russian SFSR (roughly what we consider to be Russia today), the Transcaucasian Federation (Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia), and the Ukraine. You know that “union” part of USSR? Yeah, it actually refers to a union of states. And they were the ones who pulled the plug.
No, it wasn’t. It was not imperialist, and supported countless anticolonial and anti-imperialist movements. It was not genocidal either.
This is ahistorical, again, the majority voted to retain the USSR and the majority of people say their lives were better under Socialism than Capitalism. This tracks with higher life expectancy, lower poverty rates, and other metrics in the USSR than in present post-Soviet Capitalist states. There wasn’t a “moment of lifting repression,” in fact repression increased under Capitalism with Shock Doctrine.
Quality of life skyrocketed over time, they went from one of the poorest states in Europe to one of the most developed in less than a century. It is very well documented that the Soviets went from immense poverty to doubled life expectancy, 99%+ literacy rates, free healthcare and education, food security, democratization of the economy, mass scientific achievement, high rates of home ownership, and more throughout its lifetime.
Oh, even more absurd, you’re pretending countries have souls.
Read Blackshirts and Reds. It’s 10 times as hard to debunk anticommunist red scare-era nonsense than it is to firehose falsehoods and half-truths.
Do you know what decossackization was.
Do you know what the Kazakh famine was.
Do you know what the Holomodor was.
Do you know what the Finnish, Estonian and Polish Operations were.
Do you know what the Khaibakh massacre was.
Do you know what the Deportation of the Crimean Tatars was.
Do you know what the Sumgait pogrom was
As a few examples, all straight from Wikipedia, none of what you listed is accepted as genocide, decreasingly so after the openings of the Soviet Archives. It is extremely easy to randomly look up a western list of soviet repressions, and far harder to actually dig into what happened and if it truly constituted genocide. It’s especially telling that you ignore the rest of your nonsense that I debunked in favor of perpetuating your firehose tactics, seemingly not caring if even western historians agree with you.
Several scholars have categorised this as a form of genocide,[6][7][8][9][10] whilst other historians have highly disputed this classification due to the contentious figures which range from “a few thousand to incredible claims of hundreds of thousands”.[11][12][13]
Some historians describe the famine as legally recognizable as a genocide perpetrated by the Soviet state, under the definition outlined by the United Nations; however, some argue otherwise.
While scholars are in consensus that the cause of the famine was man-made,[10][11] it remains in dispute whether the Holodomor was directed at Ukrainians and whether it constitutes a genocide, the point of contention being the absence of attested documents explicitly ordering the starvation of any area in the Soviet Union.
Nothing in the Wikipedia article covers genocide.
And so on. Again, read Blackshirts and Reds. You might learn something. No, the USSR was by no means perfect, but it wasn’t the monstrosity you depict it as either.
yeah I’m not taking homework assignments from someone who thinks I’m trying to ascribe souls to states lol.
You did, though. The USSR was dissolved by people very different from the original founders, in very different times and very different circumstances. Pretending member-states were in any way “founders” of Socialism is silly, it was people that did that, and different people that dissolved it.
Edit:If you think I am lying ask someone from a place that got occupied by the USSR most of you just go like: I saw this meme in the shit posting community time to make this my whole thing defending empires that don’t exist anymore