The poster states, in no unclear terms, that drunk WOMEN cannot consent. This is clearly evident by the scenario being laid out as the same for both parties, but one, the male, was accused of rape.
What legally constitutes rape varies by jurisdiction. Some places still define rape as “they put their penis inside someone who didn’t want it inside them”. This is a much more narrow definition than what is generally accepted by the public today, but legal definitions are often dated. Those jurisdictions usually have separate, wider definitions for sexual assault or other acts of harm, though, so it’s not a free for all.
Because rape means penetration of someone without consent. Assuming Josie probably doesn’t have a penis, it’d be incredibly hard to charge her with rape.
Drunk people can’t consent, not just drunk women. That’s the point of contention.
Edit: it’s worth mentioning that there are definitely limits to this statement. If two people at the nightclub have had several drinks and decide to hook up, that’s probably okay. They’re two consenting adults, even though they’re legally drunk. The issue is when one of the people is significantly impaired, to the point where they can’t really think clearly and consent or object. Just having a few beers and fucking isn’t a crime, and anyone who thinks it is, is a fucking prude.
Edit: it’s worth mentioning that there are definitely limits to this statement. If two people at the nightclub have had several drinks and decide to hook up, that’s probably okay. They’re two consenting adults, even though they’re legally drunk. The issue is when one of the people is significantly impaired, to the point where they can’t really think clearly and consent or object. Just having a few beers and fucking isn’t a crime, and anyone who thinks it is, is a fucking prude.
Jesus fucking christ
No. Drunk people cannot consent. Doesn’t matter if both people are drunk. Whether that is a crime or not gets into a grey area. But if the only reason you care about consent is whether you can get in trouble for ignoring it…
No. Drunk people cannot consent. Doesn’t matter if both people are drunk. Whether that is a crime or not gets into a grey area. But if the only reason you care about consent is whether you can get in trouble for ignoring it…
The grey area is literally the whole topic of discussion, though. A blanket statement like “drunk people can’t consent” fails an examination of even its first order implications. What actually has happened when two equally drunk adults have sex? Did they rape each other? What if both of them insist after the fact that they both gave consent? That wouldn’t matter right, since drunk people can’t give consent?
Why does this only apply to sex? If drunk can’t consent to anything then why is drunk driving a crime? Sure it endangers others but the drunk person didn’t consent to getting in the car in the first place because drunk people can’t consent. What else can drunk people do and bear no responsibility for?
You gloss over the grey area as if it doesn’t matter when it’s literally the whole issue. The grey area contains all the hard questions , but instead of even attempting answer any you gloss over it, whine about incels, and hide behind the obviously indefensibly broad statement that “drunk people can’t consent”.
You’ll note I did not dispute your “drunk people, not just drunk women” statement as I do agree with that (I even said as much above).
What I take immense issue with is you deciding that suddenly drunk people CAN consent so long as both parties take a few shots. Which is horrifying. And now you are using drunk driving as a way to further justify what I am increasingly certain are some REALLY fucked up things you have done.
Jesus fucking christ. Get help before you hurt more people.
You haven’t realized that you’re talking to different people, and now you’re accusing all of them of having done horrible things because they recognize that there are degrees of competency when drinking. The law says you’re legally drunk at 0.08 ABL, yet there are millions of people who can function just fine at that level. Sure, their reactions are probably slow for the purpose of driving, yet they can still perform advanced mental functions such as debate, mathematics, artistic creation, or programming. Why is sex the magic thing they absolutely cannot do in your eyes?
replies to two separate people thinking they’re the same person > makes an unhinged claim that both these people (that you still think is one person) must be evil people > tells them to get help
You’ll note I did not dispute your “drunk people, not just drunk women” statement as I do agree with that (I even said as much above).
I’m not the same person. Perhaps you’re too drunk to consent to this conversation?
What I take immense issue with is you deciding that suddenly drunk people CAN consent so long as both parties take a few shots.
What you take issue is immaterial. Is it true, or not? Mutual rape doesnt make sense as a concept . Also, what defines “drunk”? A blackout drunk person obviously can’t consent to anything but then two blackout drunk people physically can’t have sex so that’s not really in the grey area at all. And yet surely one sip of beer doesn’t do it. Are you even going to address the very basic conversation of what constitutes drunk in terms of being able to consent to sex? Or is that another question to be glossed over?
Which is horrifying.
Why? Explain why. Why are you horrified that two consenting adults can go to a bar, have a few shots, then have sex? This happens millions of times every day - are you just always horrified? Who are you to tell those consenting adults that they actually didn’t give consent and were raped?
And now you are using drunk driving as a way to further justify what I am increasingly certain are some REALLY fucked up things you have done.
You’re certain of nothing. You’re an unserious person who craves moral highground even if it’s imagined.
Jesus fucking christ. Get help before you hurt more people.
It is nuanced for sure. A married couple can get drunk and have sex and it can be consensual, but it also could not be. And I purposefully didn’t mention gender at all.
It is a big problem and each instance has its own facts.
The good news is that it is really nice to get a blocklist out of all the people who need to talk about how it is totally not rape if you document that you were drunk too.
Yeah I don’t get the hate. Drunk people can’t consent. It is pretty simple.
You’re right, drunk people can’t consent.
That is not what the poster says.
The poster states, in no unclear terms, that drunk WOMEN cannot consent. This is clearly evident by the scenario being laid out as the same for both parties, but one, the male, was accused of rape.
Then why wouldn’t she be charged with rape?
Yes, if she was the instigator.
That’s not what the poster sez.
They both went straight to prison. For the crime of being cool people that got laid while they were partying.
What legally constitutes rape varies by jurisdiction. Some places still define rape as “they put their penis inside someone who didn’t want it inside them”. This is a much more narrow definition than what is generally accepted by the public today, but legal definitions are often dated. Those jurisdictions usually have separate, wider definitions for sexual assault or other acts of harm, though, so it’s not a free for all.
Because rape means penetration of someone without consent. Assuming Josie probably doesn’t have a penis, it’d be incredibly hard to charge her with rape.
Not making someone penetrate you without their consent?
Listening not trying to get all Jordan Peterson “WHATS HAPPENING TO MEN” here, but if it doesn’t cut both ways what are we really doing?
I think for women, it’ll count as sexual assault. I think legally it can be as bad as rape, considering jail time and such. Both are felonies.
Drunk people can’t consent, not just drunk women. That’s the point of contention.
Edit: it’s worth mentioning that there are definitely limits to this statement. If two people at the nightclub have had several drinks and decide to hook up, that’s probably okay. They’re two consenting adults, even though they’re legally drunk. The issue is when one of the people is significantly impaired, to the point where they can’t really think clearly and consent or object. Just having a few beers and fucking isn’t a crime, and anyone who thinks it is, is a fucking prude.
Jesus fucking christ
No. Drunk people cannot consent. Doesn’t matter if both people are drunk. Whether that is a crime or not gets into a grey area. But if the only reason you care about consent is whether you can get in trouble for ignoring it…
The grey area is literally the whole topic of discussion, though. A blanket statement like “drunk people can’t consent” fails an examination of even its first order implications. What actually has happened when two equally drunk adults have sex? Did they rape each other? What if both of them insist after the fact that they both gave consent? That wouldn’t matter right, since drunk people can’t give consent?
Why does this only apply to sex? If drunk can’t consent to anything then why is drunk driving a crime? Sure it endangers others but the drunk person didn’t consent to getting in the car in the first place because drunk people can’t consent. What else can drunk people do and bear no responsibility for?
You gloss over the grey area as if it doesn’t matter when it’s literally the whole issue. The grey area contains all the hard questions , but instead of even attempting answer any you gloss over it, whine about incels, and hide behind the obviously indefensibly broad statement that “drunk people can’t consent”.
You’ll note I did not dispute your “drunk people, not just drunk women” statement as I do agree with that (I even said as much above).
What I take immense issue with is you deciding that suddenly drunk people CAN consent so long as both parties take a few shots. Which is horrifying. And now you are using drunk driving as a way to further justify what I am increasingly certain are some REALLY fucked up things you have done.
Jesus fucking christ. Get help before you hurt more people.
You haven’t realized that you’re talking to different people, and now you’re accusing all of them of having done horrible things because they recognize that there are degrees of competency when drinking. The law says you’re legally drunk at 0.08 ABL, yet there are millions of people who can function just fine at that level. Sure, their reactions are probably slow for the purpose of driving, yet they can still perform advanced mental functions such as debate, mathematics, artistic creation, or programming. Why is sex the magic thing they absolutely cannot do in your eyes?
You’re avoiding the question.
Unintentionally I hope.
replies to two separate people thinking they’re the same person > makes an unhinged claim that both these people (that you still think is one person) must be evil people > tells them to get help
don’t change lemmy
I’m not the same person. Perhaps you’re too drunk to consent to this conversation?
What you take issue is immaterial. Is it true, or not? Mutual rape doesnt make sense as a concept . Also, what defines “drunk”? A blackout drunk person obviously can’t consent to anything but then two blackout drunk people physically can’t have sex so that’s not really in the grey area at all. And yet surely one sip of beer doesn’t do it. Are you even going to address the very basic conversation of what constitutes drunk in terms of being able to consent to sex? Or is that another question to be glossed over?
Why? Explain why. Why are you horrified that two consenting adults can go to a bar, have a few shots, then have sex? This happens millions of times every day - are you just always horrified? Who are you to tell those consenting adults that they actually didn’t give consent and were raped?
You’re certain of nothing. You’re an unserious person who craves moral highground even if it’s imagined.
Lol
To throw some more mud into the mix, there are trace amounts of alcohol in ordinary shit like orange juice.
Drunk people absolutely can consent. It depends on how drunk they are. That was the person who you replied to’s point
It is nuanced for sure. A married couple can get drunk and have sex and it can be consensual, but it also could not be. And I purposefully didn’t mention gender at all.
It is a big problem and each instance has its own facts.
I mean, the “#NotAllMen” incels tend to come out of the woodwork any time they see something like this.
Yep. The irony is the average Lemmy user would think Reddit is horrible for it yet it’s seems to be common on Lemmy to.
The good news is that it is really nice to get a blocklist out of all the people who need to talk about how it is totally not rape if you document that you were drunk too.
Don’t agree with somebody? Automatic incel I guess. (Or ist, phobe, bigot etc)
Typical thought process on this platform.
Narrator note: “this platform” refers to “the entire internet”
No it’s just Lemmy lol
Go back to reddit then?
Nah
What, you’re a man who doesn’t want to be raped? Fucking incel