- cross-posted to:
- politics@kbin.social
- cross-posted to:
- politics@kbin.social
Former President Trump’s decision to skip the first Republican presidential primary debate is fueling Republican angst that his rivals will have little opportunity to catch up to him in the polls.
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“We let this monster of our own creation rage out of control for 8 years, and he’s still out of control!”
Edit: Also, the Party that tried to enable him to short circuit the democratic process and attempt a violent coup is suddenly upset… that he’s not following the democratic process. :(
“We tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”
He who rides the tiger can never dismount.
He who lets the tiger mount them…
Oooo I like this one! Putting that one in the quote bank.
I think this is the real issue here, jfc.
A Des Moines Register/NBC News/Mediacom poll of likely Republican caucus voters released Monday found that Trump’s lead over DeSantis has grown by 5 points since his indictment in Georgia last week on 13 criminal charges related to trying to overturn the results of the 2020 election in the state.
His approval went UP after the indictment. This is absolutely insane and only shows how hopeless US politics has become. How do you roll that division back? Can you even roll it back if everybody wanted to? This cat is out of the bag and I don’t see it going back in there any time soon.
The only hope I’ve left is the division of the GOP itself. Let the extremists go somewhere else politically and it’ll hopefully lead to a more, what is the word again, fact based approach of politics when the extremists can be ignored because you don’t have to appease them.
Why is all U.S. politics hopeless because of what’s happening inside the losing party?
The dems are far from perfect, but their side is much less “hopeless” as you put it.
Because the Republicans currently have the support of something like 20% more of the population than the NAZIs did when they seized power.
Remember, unlike folks who believe in democracy, tyrants don’t need a majority to win.
This is an extremely dangerous time for liberty in the US, and complacent attitudes like yours are only increasing the danger.
The rebulicans have plenty of politicians in power besides the president. As long as the voters favour trump they’ll need to appease them to get into the other houses.
In an ideal world it will split there vote allowing massive dem gains. But that hasn’t happened yet.
If there’s anything the GOP is good at, it’s mobilizing and motivating their voters. When they are all so alike, it’s easy to get them to agree on the stupid shit.
The democrats have the issue of diversity, which makes it hard to motivate large groups of people on a single issue. Love the diversity for the strength it brings, but it makes it hard to feel you’re getting adequate representation in a two-party, first-past-the-post system no matter who you are.
I wouldn’t trade the diversity for the mess the GOP is though.
Mainstream “normal” republicans won’t actually not vote republican. They know that their only hope of maintaining some power is to continue to work with the batshit crazy regressives.
They got in bed with these people via the Southern Strategy, and they’ve only recently started making noises like they’re uncomfortable. Once they’re in the booth, though, they will still vote straight ticket.
I expect the Mitt Romney/Chris Christie wing to do a hostile take over of the Libertarian Party and abandon the GOP lable to the Trump wing.
It would be easier to take over a party that’s already on all state ballots then create a new one from the ground up.
Honestly it’s just as easy as the media deciding they want us all to be friends again.
That’s legit all it takes.
If left and right wing media outlets would just start an initiative to bring the country together, everyone would fall in line. People only think what they are told to think.
The issue is that these corporations want money, and happiness doesn’t make money.
Lots of zombies out there.
Hitler became dictator only after he was sent and got out of jail. Lula in Brazil more recently was sent to jail and then got out and won a presidential election.
The Justice system coming after you feeds the Trumper’s belief that the system is against him. Therefore he is anti-establishment therefore they must vote for him because there is a very strong anti-establishment movement right now.
It’s why I think it was a very dangerous and potentially foolish decision to bring charges against him. We may be starting a chain of events that will get out of control.
You’re right, we should just let Trump break as many laws as he wants because we are scared of his yokel supporters. That would be way better.
I don’t think they are suggesting he should be allowed to break laws, but acknowledging the challenge the accountability brings with it.
Maybe it’s better that he had either lost the election first and then we charged or we had brought charges 2 years ago instead of right before election season.
I’m not sure, to be honest. I just think this is a dangerous decision that shouldn’t be made likely. The world doesn’t work like it ought to. We should keep that in mind. Obviously me and you don’t actually make decisions so we can just speculate.
But I’m worried about the near future.
The issue is that his DoJ refused to investigate him because they have a standing policy that a president cannot be charged with breaking the law. So despite multiple public violations of both law breaking and high crimes and misdemeanors, Trump was allowed to get away with it under the Nixonian mandate of anything the president does is by definition legal. It means that Biden could begin actually just arresting all republican politicians on the charge of treason and, as long as the senate doesn’t vote to remove him from office with a 2/3 majority, it’s legal even though it would violate the word and intent of the constitution.
Now they can’t prosecute him because, despite being a private citizen, he might become president? This is the same party - and literally the same person - who joyfully chanted “lock her up” over their political opponent throughout the previous campaign. The same people who boasted about defeating Hillary Clinton via a comic investigation into Benghazi, which was designed to do exactly what it did.
Absolutely nothing republicans complain about is said in good faith. It’s time to move past that idea and not even address the complaint. If Trump wasn’t investigated and prosecuted, he’d still be ahead in the polls. Trump is the republican party, and the republican party is Trump.
The error with Hitler wasn’t sending him to prison, it was letting him out again after only a few months.
Well that’s the issue with imprisoning popular political figures. All it takes is a tide to shift, a different party to come to power, and they may remove the popular figure from prison.
What if we imprison him and say DeSantis makes freeing Trump his main campaign promise? This type of thing can have unforeseen consequences. It’s an unprecedented time.
I think there is a bit of cherry picking in this. I don’t think you’re wrong that the charges will rile up his supporters, but plenty of dictators have taken power without going to jail.
The problem was already there, charges or not we were going to have to deal with a very violent mob, at least with charges filed we stand up for the moral value that all people (should be) are equal under the law.
I agree you don’t need it but I think there’s a certain zeitgeist going on right now and for example the last Brazilian president before Lula, Bolsonaro is also being prosecuted and they’re trying to put him in jail.
These types of things are not normal in a stable and healthy democracy. We are teetering on the edge. I just hope Democrats can win this next election. I hate them with a passion but I think they can at least maintain the system functional for another 4 years.
Just never let the fuck head out and problem solved.
Therefore he is anti-establishment
Being a crime lord does not make anyone “anti-establishment”. Bernie Sanders says Treason Trump is the most corrupt president in history. What matters is not a meaningless abstract word but whether the billionaire elites support your policies, and they love Treason Trump’s tax cuts for the rich.
Of course but you try explaining that to the Trumpers. They won’t believe you. They hear Trump say “witch hunt” and “hoax” so they’re primed to believe it and then he tells them the government is against him… they see the justice system going after them… it almost becomes evidence for it. You see what I mean?
Like the name. Was just thinking of the wonderful comedian last night.
He’s not part of the party and never was. They let him come in and take over. It’s time for them to really up their language and actions against Trump rather than coddling him and his followers out of fear.
That won’t happen until long after he’s dead. They’ll prop him up as their golden calf until he can’t speak anymore. Then like a light switch they’ll have never supported him in the slightest and he was the evil man that took control of the GOP and made them look bad for 20 years.
Christ I hope Trump doesn’t live another 12 years
He has access to better healthcare than 99% of the rest of us. Despite his best efforts I don’t think we’ll be rid of him anytime soon.
I think he’s going to flee America and do some sort of radio / online media message as a deposed
dictatorpresident . And continue to grift until he can’t.Unless he has an “attack of conscience” and “commits suicide”. Inside a guarded cell. Where he’s being watched 24/7.
You know, the usual way.
Edit: honestly, I’m curious about the downvotes. Do people think I’m suggesting this is a thing that should happen? I think this would honestly be the worst possible result. And, call me a pessimist, but that’s why I’m afraid of it happening. They’ll be able to control him and his cult much better with him dead than alive.
Ah, the ole Epstinearoo. A classic to be sure.
That won’t happen as he may turn out to be more dangerous dead than alive.
You can stick him in prison and then people can forget about him but if he dies he becomes a martyr.
You can stick him in prison and then people can forget about him but if he dies he becomes a martyr.
There is no scenario where Convicted Sex Offender Treason Trump doesn’t wind up with the same historical reputation as that of Benedict Arnold. His crimes were arguably bigger than Arnold’s crimes.
Oh, I completely agree he will be far more dangerous dead than alive. Particularly because they won’t struggle to control him anymore. I wasn’t suggesting it should go that way… More suggesting that I can easily see it happening. On purpose. Specifically so that they can control the narrative.
It might be closer to when he’s no longer a viable candidate. They turned on Bush practically before he was out of office
Convicted Sex Offender Loser Trump will lose to Biden again by an even bigger margin, and then exhaust his criminal appeals, then go to jail for the rest of his life. The every GOP voter will suddenly claim they never really supported Convicted Sex Offender Loser Trump.
Trump is 100% the Republican party of today. Maybe you could say he was an outsider in 2015 having little political experience but he is now the face of the party. He is leading in Iowa by 23 points and in national polls by an average of 37 points. Republicans courted the MAGA base for a long time and now that they have control of the party. The Republican party can no more excise Trump and his base than one could cut out their own heart and remain whole.
Trump is a truer conservative than any Republican before him.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=E4CI2vk3ugk
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Fantastic video from them as always. Love it when they dive into sources like this, gives very little room for conservatives to lie about the foundation of their ideology.
No, I think we should let them continue tearing themselves apart
They didn’t let him come in and take over. There were 12 people running for the Republican primary in 2016, and that split the vote so much that Trump was able to get a plurality in most states. If it had been two or three candidates Trump may not have been able to win.
This is another example of how leniency for those who would make themselves king eventually leads to dictatorship. See you in another 5 years for the civil war.
See you in another 5 years for the civil war.
I worry that you’re being optimistic
Promise? Maybe this time we can learn to take away their toys after they get sent home crying.
Where do the trump supporters go when trump dies?
Sounds like the beginning of a joke but really, what happens to the MAGA movement when the leader is no longer around? What happens to the GOP ? Do they become weaker and more divided? or can the national GOP rally around a new leader?
Sounds like the beginning of a joke but really, what happens to the MAGA movement when the leader is no longer around?
Every single one of them will claim they never really supported him.
Hopefully they all move to Russia and Belarus.
I think this is a super interesting question. My bet is that there will be a few years of GOP chaos after he dies.
I mean this as a Cassandra-like prediction of doom:
The Trumps will become the republican version of the Kennedys. The Bushes tried it, but somehow we’re both over-intellectual and insufficiently prejudiced to make it work in today’s gop.
If we’re lucky, they’ll follow him to hell.
The only cultnof personality that has successfully handed down succession is the Kim dynasty in north Korea…
Where do the trump supporters go when trump dies?
Don Jr, of course…
They’ll say he ascended and will await his return for thousands of years.
Oh they’ll rally alright. All they need is some more fake outrage from Fox to get their panties all up in a bunch.
Either that or fox will just display words that alternate every few hours like “abortion” or “immigrants” and underneath it’ll say “vote republican.”
Institutionalized racism, misogyny, homophobia, and white Christian separatism as party platform. No matter how “conservative” Republicans claimed to be, The Southern Strategy was the core value and singular driving force for the past 60 years. MAGA isn’t a symptom, it’s result
It’s almost like you shouldn’t have put your eggs all in one basket.
If the GOP actually does something, the only thing they can would be to kick him out of the GOP. However, if they do that, Trump will most likely form his own political party, and start attracting senators, governors, and house members to switch to his new party to give it legitimately.
I have been saying and I will keep on saying this, Trump is the modern day Hitler.
Clown show.
To the surprise of absolutely no one.
The only way to discourage this behavior is to help the other candidates make their pitch, which has to be why they are a better choice than Trump.
This should be how it works, the entire reason for the debate is that the attendees benefit from the attention.
But will conservatives even watch a debate that Trump isn’t attending?
They would need a miracle to pass him at this point.
