If you've ever spent any time online, you might have heard how TOXIC the Arch Linux community is. You might even have been cyberbullied for using Ubuntu by a...
  • spauldo@lemmy.mlEnglish
    461·
    10 months ago

    I’ve never talked to an Arch user about Linux, so I dunno how toxic their community is. But I do read Arch documentation, and it’s fantastic. Arch’s documentation has (for me, anyway) taken the place that used to be held by the old HOWTOs back in the early days.

    The kind of cooperation required to accomplish this doesn’t speak of a toxic community to me. I didn’t watch the video since I don’t watch YouTube on my phone, but I’m guessing it’s not the Arch community that has issues but annoying teenage “I’m more 1337 than you” jackwads that are the turd in the Linux punchbowl. Those little cretins are drawn to distros like Arch because they like feeling superior to the “normie” users.

    I should know, I used to be like that thirty years ago. Most of us grow out of it after we start getting laid.

    • phx@lemmy.ca
      5·
      10 months ago

      I haven’t run into any of the conflicts with Arch users or the meme’ish activity they are supposedly famous for online. I have run into the documentation, which I agree is pretty impressive in many situations.

      If Arch users are telling you to RTFM, I guess at least there’s a decent FM to read :-)

    • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
      5·
      10 months ago

      You probably have, the vast majority don’t sprout “I use Arch btw” unless it’s relevant, e.g. talking about arch specific things.

      The community can be a bit toxic for new users, essentially because it’s expected that you googled your problem and looked at the wiki before asking. In the video for example he shows a forum with the following back and forth:

      OP: I have X problem

      Arch User: can you provide the debug logs?

      OP: How do I get debug logs

      AU: link to the wiki page that gives information on how to get the debug logs for that program

      That doesn’t seem toxic to me, in fact it seems a perfectly acceptable and polite response, but for some reason the person in the video thought it was. There are a lot of examples of edgelords claiming Arch is for the intellectual superior, and the OP should just use Ubuntu because he’s dumb, those would have been better examples of the toxicity in the Arch community. Like you mentioned it, they’re likely annoying teens and not really the norm, but they exist and are somewhat common, I was active on the arch subreddit before switching to Lemmy and I’ve read a good share of such responses.

      • Grangle1@lemm.ee
        2·
        10 months ago

        I’d totally agree. I work as a trainer and documentation writer for my job, and if a trainee came to me with a question, my first response would never be just “RTFM”; if the solution is in said manual I would point them to the specific area of the manual the solution is in. A link to that spot in the manual is certainly sufficient and polite enough to do that. Otherwise they’re more than likely to come back and bug me because they can’t find the solution in the manual. I actually don’t really notice a lot of elitism among Arch users at all, the more annoying thing I find from the community is them spamming support for using Arch for every single use case in any sort of “help me pick a distro” thread. We get it, Arch is awesome and you love it, not really disagreeing, but you can settle down now.

  • 0x0@social.rocketsfall.net
    191·
    10 months ago

    If linking to a Wiki entry counts as toxic then I don’t know what to tell you. Users need to hear that their problems aren’t unique and aren’t worth anyone taking time out of their day to handcraft a response to. This isn’t Ubuntu - you are expected to be able to DIY, and if you constantly need someone to hold your hand through the process then you need to uninstall and start over elsewhere until you understand why Arch exists. It’s like declaring you’re going to build a shed to keep your mower in, but you call your contractor buddy every five minutes asking where to drive the nails and place the studs. Your time is best spent driving to the hardware store and buying the shed outright.

    If someone is contemplating installing Arch, they need to be asked why. If they can’t explain it or give a poor answer (“I saw a video” etc,) direct them somewhere else.

  • Audacity9961@feddit.ch
    14·
    10 months ago

    I don’t think most Arch users are.

    However, I do think a small portion of the Arch community are. There seems to be a segment that is quite aggressive with RTFM, even where the wiki is unclear, or are otherwise very condescending or even aggressive to new users.

    People also really need to stop recommending Arch to new users, especially those looking to move to Linux for gaming.

    • addie@feddit.uk
      31·
      10 months ago

      I’d kind of hope that we’re not all like that - I use Arch btw. for my computers at home, but at work we use a combination of Redhat, Centos Stream and Amazon Linux, and I spend a lot of my day helping people with ‘Linux admin’ issues even though that’s not strictly my job.

      When getting started with Linux, there’s a certain ‘glossary gap’ if you’ve come from Windows, not even knowing the right term to search for. Newstarts will complain that “waa! Linux is terrible, doesn’t recognise my hardware”, to which invoking a couple of udev commands seems like magic. Some people will get irritated when answering the same question in the same way for the tenth time and just post a link; really, those people need to step back and let someone else pick it up. The Arch wiki is fantastic, but it’s particularly fantastic if you already know what all the words mean and just need your memory prodding a bit. Having someone able to interpret a page for you is a huge benefit over having to fall down a wiki hole, which is very dispiriting when you’re trying to learn.

      And yes, Arch is great for gaming - latest version of everything, look at my extra frames - but really, it’s only a tiny bit better than eg. Pop! OS, and that’s a much better choice for someone who’s never used Linux before.

    • mpldr@beehaw.org
      2·
      10 months ago

      I am split here. I dont expect anyone to know the manages by heart, but at least doing a quick search should be possible. If that obviously wasn’t done I’m fine with referring people to the friendly manual.

      RTFM nice(1)

      I really don’t see a reason to write more just to summarise what has already been written. Is that toxic though? I don’t think so. If someone then says that they don’t understand what that reference means, I’ll gladly explain how manpages work and how to search for info. Teach a man to fish and stuff.

      • Audacity9961@feddit.ch
        2·
        10 months ago

        You are describing a different scenario to myself here though.

        There is nothing wrong with helping to direct people to the manual of course if it is genuinely of use.

        There are many who are not as friendly as you in my experience who use these queries more a flex of their perceived superiority than any genuine attempt to be helpful.

        It is these people who view arch as some sort of elite status symbol that makes them superior geniuses that are toxic.

  • mateomaui@reddthat.comEnglish
    132·
    10 months ago

    My favorite Arch interaction I’ve read was where someone asked the best way to change the theming of a certain distro, and an Arch dude took issue with this, saying that if they wanted something different they should just use a different distro or create their own, instead of disrespecting the vision of the distro creators. This, over changing the theme, for which options are built-in, and which is the base minimal type of customization you can do on any OS, for a distro type where a primary selling point is endless customization compared to other distros.

    Seriously, gtfoh.

  • Blaiz0r@lemmy.ml
    111·
    10 months ago

    I mean… They’re not. Not counting the individual or course.

  • Bob Smith@sopuli.xyz
    51·
    10 months ago

    Arch seems to target users who are inclined to read the wiki and manpages, so it doesn’t surprise me that beginners run across some saltiness if they approach people who aren’t focused on beginners. Even the installation process seems to be designed as a screening mechanism. It wasn’t a big hurdle when I first tried it out, but it was a small one.

    There are plenty of distributions that focus on people who are just getting started. For whatever it might be worth, this includes several distros based on Arch. I usually suggest Mint or Xubuntu over Debian for people with no prior exposure to Linux. Even though I like it personally, I try not to suggest vanilla Arch to anybody. They can try it if they want to, but there are plenty of reasons to try something else instead.

  • Pollen Pirate@beehaw.org
    4·
    10 months ago

    Isn’t the video saying that they are “toxic” because noobs asks questions without providing info? And that wastes their time? And if they don’t want to spend some time finding out by reading wiki + providing a full post of what they tried, the logs and info, those experts on Arch Linux aren’t going to lose time with them as they didn’t spend any time resolving or explaining their own issue… I think it’s pretty clear what the video says, if you don’t want to learn and be “independent” just keep with Ubuntu or Linux Mint.

  • GustavoM@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3·
    10 months ago

    > “Why is X so T.O.X.I.C?”

    > “”“argument”“” is just a bunch of meme spam

    ewwytim

  • _cnt0@sh.itjust.works
    63·
    10 months ago

    Looks like most people vote on the title of the post and don’t actually watch the video. TL;DW: most Arch users really aren’t.